Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[johne.ev]

Something i've been thinking about recently, while looking to acquire new animals (particulary as most are single male specimens), is how much is inbreeding a problem? some things i've read say it is & others say differently. obviously if you can get unrelated no problem. but what about the subject of dwarf monitors. alot of breeders/experienced keepers say to get a group of hatchlings & raise them together. whats everyones thoughts on this?

[arborgoanna]

I personally feel that inbreeding should be avoided whenever possible, as nothing positive can ever come out of inbreeding in the long-run. Given that most Odatria lineages existing in captivity outside of Australia are already of limited genetic diversity, the chances of there being deleterious genes within the existing gene pool are rather high, since these would not otherwise be 'weeded out' by natural selection.

Just because not many, if any deleterious mutations have been observed in inbred captive bred individuals does not necessarily mean that they do not exist, and that inbreeding is perfectly safe. Many, if not most deleterious genetic mutations aren't even expressed in living individuals, as the mutations themselves interfere with or affect embryological development, and are thus not likely to successfully develop or even hatch out. Therefore, I would expect many of these deleterious mutations which possibly exist in the current captive lineages to go undetected for that simple reason alone.

[Sean]

Bob what you have posted there is what I said in a nutshell about bloodlines relating to glauerti and that a limited lineage could possibly have an effect on a population if the individuals of that lineage carried certain floors in the gene make up.

I remember your clik saying something on this forum about inbreeding is not a factor in reptiles as it can be in mammals. If I remember rightly it was about incubation and certain odartria sp dying before 6 months of age or going full term and not hatching.

Now what, you are obvoiusly agreeing with me. hmmmmmmmmmm some u-turn maybe you read it in a journel thats what Akedemics do like you.

Tunnel vision if its not on paper then it is not fact.

[pachyderm]

Has anyone noticed its a bit cold in hear

[johne.ev]

i thought this subject might touch a few nerves, because i've heard & read so many different views. keep e'm coming, i personally think its a very interesting subject.

[Sean]

Yes John it is very interesting indeed. I know that practically all the glauerti in Europe and the U.S. stem from just a few animals, now whether these animals had floors in their gentic make up to begin with I cannot answer or even if it is down to inbreeding of generations.

Acanthurus don't seem to have the same problems as glauerti but acanthurus animals were more in abundance so you should get a fairly spread gentic diversity, plus ackies are now probably mixed up in captivity of different races/sub species.

Another reason why probably glauerti and pilbarensis do so poorly is that maybe they are kept in groups, this causes stress to other cage mates and sometimes it is too late before they start to show the signs.

If I was you I would talk to Lee Warren on this forum he as excellent knowledge of odatria species or Brandon Van Asten at canadian coldblood equally a pioneer.

[LeeWarren]

The subject is simple really john.

If you keep breeding brother to sister every generation then 5, 10, 20 years down the line you are going to get problems.

The human race has many diseases, whose to say they were not created from the inbreeding of Adam and Eves offspring and their offspring and so on, if you believe such things.

I agree with you - interesting post.

[johne.ev]

thanks all for the info.
@ Lee, speak to you soon,cheers mate.

[Scott W]

[crocdoc]