Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[mcfluffin]

Hi all.

I'm just going to ask some advice as to whether there are any smaller (dwarf) chameleons species suitable for small 'ish' setups. I have a few places in my home where there is a bit of room, but horizontal space is a bit limited. Are there any dwarfs that enjoy very arboreal setups, but perhaps 18x20 inch horizontal space? I know some of the dwarf species may range from 6-8 inches, such as Bradypodion pumilum. If I can provide adequate ventilation and humidity etc are there any dwarfs suited for my limited space, that might like say 5 ft + high enclosures?

Thanks very much guys, I don't want to come across as shrewd, but I am at a crossroads between desperately wanting to keep chams, but at the same time not wanting them to suffer cramped or unreasonable husbandry due to my greed.


All the best

Joe

[lol93]

I konw Karen, Tom and a few others keep pygmy chams in Exo Terras, but I can't comment myself never having kept them.

One of the others will hopefully be able to advise. Good luck!
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[mcfluffin]

Thanks lol...I'm actually in the process of getting my pygmy cham setup sorted. They are fairly simple setups, not too different from dart frog setups, which I'm already familiar with. I'm actually looking for ideas on the larger 'true chameleon' species, but I don't have room for a yemen setup yet.

Just to extend what I'm thinking at the moment I'm going to add to my thread (as no-one seems to have replied yet really).....

I am now looking towards the idea of a custom mesh enclosure approximately 20x20x48 inches for a single chamaeleo rudis. I thought a wooden frame with a melamime back panel and hinged front would work. Obviously heavily planted throughout. I could have UV fitted on top and slightly raised so as not to burn the top mesh, and also a simple drip system. I would have to work out how to incorporate a basking lamp, which shouldn't be a problem (perhaps in a wire cage near the top of corners of the viv? Hopefully I could make the bottom a removable tray for cleaning (I might make one out of melamime and seal the corner joins).

Rudis chameleons seem to be a good bet for novice chameleon keepers (apparently), and I think this kind of setup would allow for the correct conditions. If anyone has kept these animals before, or would like to advise for or against them I would be glad of the input. They require fairly humid conditions and cool night time lows which I shouldn't have too much trouble with. They are also very small (6-7 inches), so I think the size would be suitable (again if anyone disagrees please say so).

Thanks in advance for any advice...

Joe

xxx

[Rickeezee]

Hi Joe

I have not kept Rudis so cant comment on them that much really. C. rudis is a montane species, inhabiting low bushes and grasses of the alpine zone. I would imagine that they require quite specific daytime temps and quite a drop at night in temp?

Not sure I would class them as a beginner cham though, but as I said I have not kept them so not fair to comment on that aspect.

The size viv that you suggest is ample in my view, can I ask is the height 48 inches?
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www.rickslivefood.co.uk

[mcfluffin]

Yeah that's what I'm planning for the height. I may even think about making it taller? I suppose in theory I could keep a pair if it were taller, but then there might be problems lighting the whole viv. Rudis are supposedly fairly docile with conspecifics. The temps require drops to 14-16 degrees C at night. Most of the year this will not be a problem as our flat is an old Victorian block which remains fairly stable. During the summer months I may have a fan blowing over the top, or even put the chams outside. Daytime temps shouldn't be difficult to achieve. Do you think it sounds feasible?

[Rickeezee]

I think my main concern would be the temp drops required especially if we have a really hot summer, perhaps an air con unit in a room where they are kept?

What is the high end of their temp requirements durring the day, 80f?

Everything is feasible though if the conditions are spot on for the cham that you propose to keep.

With that size viv I think your options for a cham are quite wide. If you wanted you could go for a cham that did not require such temp drops.

Would be good if a Rudis keeper would post if there are any out there that have kept them or are keeping them. Then they could share their husbandry experiences, this would help.

If you do go for a Rudis if you can I would go for a captive bred one if you can find a true captive bred one, Captive Farmed or Wild caught probably will not do so well in captivity as a true CB. Only a suggestion but watch out for adds that state CB check out the seller is not misidentifying a captive farmed as a captive bred. Unfortunately such deceptions do occur. This gives genuine chameleon breeders a bad name in my view.

Wild caught and captive farmed are options and usually are initially cheaper options, but you need to know what the potential risks are if you take this route as it can be more costly in the long term, financially as well as for the welfare of the animal. Don't get me wrong I am not 100% anti CF or WC after all new bloodlines to maintain strong stock and prevent the gene pool being exhausted are required at times. Thats a fact of life. Many dealers will also opt for this route as it increases profit margins vastly. Much cheaper to buy in CF or WC than genuine home bred European or UK chams. Just as long as they are advertised honestly I dont have a problem with it at all.

I have searched the net for more information on the Rudis but have not found that much yet. Good luck with your research I think you are very wise researching first. In the long run time spent now researching will pay good dividends in the future.
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www.rickslivefood.co.uk

[PaulG]

^^^I dont think anyone could have put it better ^^^(Rick)

As Rick has said you may well need a air con unit or something similar in the summer months!
You could have a larger species that is more hardy in that size cage.
but at the end of the day it is going to be your cham and you are the one going to be looking after it, so it has to be a chameleon you like.
anyways that my bit.
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Regards, Paul.

:.Rhacodactylus.:.Eublepharis.:.Stenodactylus.:.Nephrurus.:

[mcfluffin]

Thanks chaps, great advice.

Rick, the maximum daytime is around 28 degrees C, which it won't get above in my house, and similarly we shouldn't have trouble getting that kind of temp when it's cold. I am a little concerned about the night temps in the summer, but I think that holding judgment until an experienced rudis keeper pops their head up makes sense. Am I right in thinking Mr Meru has similar temperature requirements Rick? If so, do you have air con?

I have considered a few other species. Furcifer lateralis are nice chams (minor), but I am a bit put off by their short lifespan (although not completely put off). I've also considered C.ellioti. There are also a lot of smaller Bradypodion species that I thought might be easy, although I don't think they are very easy to get hold of. Has anyone any other suggestions that could look into?

Like I said, thanks for all the help on this...it's greatly appreciated

[Rickeezee]

[mcfluffin]

Thanks Rick, I'll look into them some more. If you have a successful breeding group that is also useful. Will the youngsters be for sale at some point? P.M me if you want. I can get an enclosure built in the next few months once my uni workload dies off. Meanwhile I'll read what I can about them. Seems like the temperature requirements are a little easier.

Thanks again