Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

lophius · Key Member Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 210

And here's what happened last time she was with a boy !!

(sorry for the graphic content!)

Carl

lophius · Key Member Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 210

one more

Sean · CaptiveBred Addict! Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 602

Here are some 7 day old hatchlings produced by the big male. The colour change as not taken place yet as you can see. They normally have changed fully by about 6 months. The black reduces and the yellow comes out.

Mike · Contributing Member Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 139

yeah it's funny how big they grew, this is my guy when I got him!

Mike · Contributing Member Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 139

and a year or so later!

Sean · CaptiveBred Addict! Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 602

Yeah I remember when I first saw yours Mike there was an even bigger one as well. In literature it says they attain a smaller size, well all the adults that I know that are true Mindanao are all well above the sizes stated in books. I had an interesting conversation with a chap from the Netherlands and he reckons that all the other cumingi's you see are different to Mindanao cumingi's not just size and appearance but also in behaviour. In fact he told me that the others are a different monitor altogether in is opinion and this was shared also by German professor well known in varanids.

shay_ · Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject:

the late Mark Bayless shared some information with me about two different cumingi monitors. the beautiful yellow ones coming from Mindinao and a darker version coming from the islands north of Mindinao. i'll have to dig that paper out to see what else is mentioned.

FR has a male cumingi that reached 6ft in its first year. i don't know the age of the one i had but it was just under 5 feet. i think it lived a rough life before i got him based on the scars he had.

Sean · CaptiveBred Addict! Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 602

Well I know FR's were c.b. from the Frankfurt line which is the same bloodline as mine, they are directly from Mindanao. I know cumingi is said to appear on Bohol, leyte, Samar, and Basilan (M Gaulke).

Where do the so called cumingi w.c. come from then?

lophius · Key Member Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 210

I have to agree with you sean. (based on personal experience, literature and personal comms).

The mundano animals are much bigger, have stockier bodies, and have much more yellow colouration.

The 'wild' type animals that are not derived from the frankfurt line are much slimmer - even the long term captives that you see, apart from the obvious colour differences there appear to be many morphological differences, including tail to body ratio (the tail of the wild animals is longer), snout length, head shape, limb size etc etc -

In addition to the physical differences there appear to be behavioural differences also. The 'wild type' animals never seeming to settle into captivity as well.

I have noted a reluctance of the wild type animals to consume certain food stuffs, namely fish.

It will be interesting to see the 'ultimate' size of wild type animals in captivity, given that the stated maximum is approximately 5ft - frankfurt line / mindano animals achieve much greater sizes.

My largest animal is 4 years and 145cm (male), female is 122cm same age, another male (owned by a friend) of the same age is 167cm). The one that you currently own is 175cm and 10 years. - these are al frankfurt animals.

As you know I recently sold a wild type female of 2.5years and 90cm, it will be interesting to see her development.

The distribution of 'cumingi' is fairly widespread - It makes sense that there will be specific 'island races'. The 'wild type' animals that I recently received came via a Malaysian exporter - I know that they operate in the region of Basilan - it makes sense to assume that my animals came from there.

I am hoping to obtain some wild type juvenile 'cumingi' in the near future and it will be very interesting to see how they pan out.

Carl

shay_ · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:17 am Post subject:

are you asking where the wild caught cumingi come from? if that's what you're asking, i don't know. i'm not even sure i've seen one of the darker version cumingi's that Mark was talking about.

before i learned about the exporting laws of the Philippines i sent my wifes friend who lives there in the Philippines to Mindanao in search of cumingi to export for my breeding project. he found people in or near Davao Mindanao who is either breeding or running a farm business for the leather and meat trade that had several young cumingi. unfortunately i learned of the no exporting laws and decided to cancel that idea, even though my wifes friend was willing to attempt to smuggle them out. that's when i decided to work with a species that is readily available. and i love argus monitors.

cheers
shay