Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[testdrive]

Very interesting topic.I too have succesfully hatched out Panoptes this year.I would like to give you a brief description of the incubation method that worked for me.Some of you will find it just too simple but ,it works. Basically the eggs are in a tray ,about 2/3 deep in perlite.The initial water -perlite ratio was apx.1 . 1 .the tray is layed on 2 bricks inside of a 10 gallon aquarium.The aquarium contains enough water to reach apx. 3/8 of an inch below the top edge of the tray containing the eggs.In the water their is a submersible fish tank heater and a small circulation pump,and an aeration stone.The tank is covered completely with a tight fitting plexi glass which is perforated with apx 40 ,1/8 inch holes.The fonction is rather simple,the fish tankheater maintains a stable water temperature,thus heating the air inside the incubator as well,the pump ciculates the water so temperature is stable and water does not stagnate,and the airation stone raises the humidity level.Humidity =70%,egg surface temperature taken with an infrared temp. gun =89-89.4o. Yes I set it up and had it running for about a week ,tuning things before actually putting the eggs in it .
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crocs rule! R.I.P Steve Irwin..

[Sam Sweet]

Ah well, I keep seeing pictures of sealed egg boxes in which significant O2 depletion/CO2 buildup can be calculated to happen in 1-2 days towards the end of incubation. You probably wouldn’t keep a hatchling monitor in a deli cup without putting air holes in the lid, and the only difference between that hatchling and a full-term egg is the shell. I hope that people realize that monitor eggs have increasing gas exchange requirements as they develop, and that what was OK at day 50 may really not be OK at day 200.

Over on this side of the pond it is fairly common practice to use ‘plastic food wrap’ held in place with a rubber band as a convenient, water vapor proof covering for egg boxes. “What kind of plastic wrap do you use?” “I dunno, it doesn’t matter.” Unfortunately, it can. Plastic food wrap is a polymer film, usually either polyvinylidine chloride (PVDC) or polyethylene (PE). A common brand name for PVDC is Saran Wrap, whereas Glad Wrap is a PE polymer. It is not widely (enough) understood that PVDC is used for wrapping meats (which are not supposed to oxidize), whereas PE is used for fruits and veggies (which need to breathe). You can find O2 and CO2 transmission rates for these materials fairly easily, and these show that PE film (Glad Wrap) transmits 290 times the oxygen and 120 times the carbon dioxide of PVDC (Saran Wrap). They are different materials designed for different needs, and the one is clearly unsuitable for use as an egg box cover.

[shay_]

never would have thought of that. nor did i know there are differences between the two. thanks for that Sam.

[Rickeezee]

Very interesting thread, I have learnt a lot by reading this of a subject I knew very little about, thanks. Also great hatching pics!
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www.rickslivefood.co.uk

[Sean]

[lophius]

Thought i'd join in what has become a very interesting thread here.

How sensitive would embryos be to noise and or vibration?

The reason that I ask is that it may be possible to increase ventilation / gas exchange, without significantly decreasing temperature stability, or changing humidity much through the use of an aquarium type air pump.

I would think that for most peoples set-ups this could easily be incorporated.

If indeed gas exchange is a limiting factor towards the latter stages of incubation then an air exchange mechanism could be incorporated at this point.

The pump could be used on a timer to produce short periods for gas exchange.

If, for instance, incubation is conducted in a poly box (as per most hobbyist type set-ups) then the air pump could be placed in another poly box (or alternative container) that has the same temp, humidity etc as the incubation box - link between the two would be via simple aquarium airline hose (5mm?) - the link could be closed through the use of a clamp. - the exhaust to the incubation box via the same type airline - air flow controlled with clamp.

The advantage of this is that the box containing the pump could be opened regularly to ensure fresh air content - closed for sufficient period to allow air to reach 'correct' temp and humidity and then pumped to incubation box.

Just a thought

Carl

[lophius]

Test drive -

In using an aquarium did you cover / paint the glass to keep the eggs in the dark or were they exposed to usual day / night light patterns?

Also surprised that the humidity was only 70%

Cheers

carl

[Sam Sweet]

Carl,
The usual problem with running air into the incubator is less one of maintaining temperatures than of altering humidity. It might work if the air pump fed into an airstone in a container mostly full of water within the incubator, with a small hole to allow air but not water droplets out. That way the incoming air would be at virtually the same dewpoint (and temp.) as the air in the incubator, but you'd need to worry about condensation at the venting point as the expelled air cooled. I do not know if that has been tried, one would surely need to experiment with it to see if you could actually create an equilibrium. I think most people successfully hatching monitor eggs employ sealed egg boxes within the incubator, so unless they were using a Gladwrap top there'd be little advantage to ventilating the incubator itself.

Water balance is at least as messy as gas exchange, and may have more to do with late-stage deaths -- I'll try to post some ideas about water management for discussion later in this thread.