Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[danceswithsavs]

this topic has a history of stimulating rousing debate.
My interest in the savannah monitor, nowdays, is in taming, domestication, training, seeing to their learning- by whatever name you call it, it's just thoughtful and deliberate establishment of 'normalcy' of their daily habits so they can live with a human family.
How far the expression of instinctive behaviours can be shaped- and even more significant- the power of daily habit- are worthy topics of investigation. So far as i know, i am presenting some of the rare documentation of reptile training.

If the only thing i taught the savs was not to snatch at their food, it would be worth doing. In fact, if they always get what they want and never have to catch it on the run, they very shortly learn to take food most delicately.
Unlearning is harder, so a baby is best to work with because he hasn't got years of rehearsal savaging at mealtime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPzRg17CWBs
Buzzy Learns to Kiss. Baiting the monitor to the face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-TXjpT5bJQ
Teaching Puppies to Kiss for Food. The decisions the sav must learn:
asking the face to summon the hand, even though he can see the food...
realising that the hand comes when the face is asked- no bargaining with the hand...
the face is not the food...(the risky part- once past that, they're cool)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpgU-TlssIU
What Buzzy wants, Buzzy gets! He's got his lessons down and makes all the correct decisions now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX8iyQ3z1Ao
Puppy Love. Buzzy follows Lilly around intensely. Social behaviour?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQpr1BSpvkM
Pretty Lilly. Lilly is a people addict. She wants petting many times a day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6gBRE7VYvA
Tolerance. Lilly lets me take away a bit of food too big for her. Her kissing is now second nature and she does it even while something else is on her mind- like the cameraman was in this vid. She will climb up anybody who stands still and try to kiss them, whether she wants food or not. In this vid, she didn't want more food. She just has a solid habit of running up and kissing ppl now. Her eyes are always dilated so they look like little black beads. Maybe that's a sign of a comfortable monitor?

Whether or not anybody thinks i *should* do this will not change the fact that i have done it and will continue to do it. These animals feel pleasure and pain and have memories of those things. They therefore have emotions, no matter how rudimentary. They DO show affection because they seek contact with the keepers whom they associate with all the good things they know. This adds up to something as potent as social instincts.
(I think everybody knows a story of a lizard pining for a deceased mate. It is real.)

[Stuart]

Great videos,just watched them all...thanks for sharing them I really enjoyed them.
_________________

[Rick_Albig]

To be honest those clips show a monitor eating an unsuitable food source and that is all. They are two hungry little monitors eating food from your hands. They are not "trained" and they most certainly do not "kiss for food."

My Black throats will take food out of my hands no problem. In fact they will consume a dozen or so chicks on after another no problem all fed from hand. My ackies will do the same thing with locust. There is no training involved, they just seek out the food.

Sorry if it seem I am being negative but I just cant see what you have achieved?

Rick

[crocdoc]

The above poster forgot to mention his/her 'taming' procedure: put the monitor in deep water until it can barely swim any more, then pretend you are saving it (with the belief that monitors can recognise when someone is doing a 'good' deed for them).

Still wonder why the previous posts inspired heated debate?

As far as the 'training' goes, that's neither here nor there for me - although, if you tried it with even the tamest of my adult lace monitors rather than baby savs, you'd have to change your name to 'DancingWithoutLips'

[Rick_Albig]

Hahahahaha! Fantastic Dave!

[danceswithsavs]

I realise it may be too much to ask that those opposed to teaching resist the red herrings, ad hominem and every other logical fallacy they will try to use to distract from the topic- but could you please start another thread to deal with the psychology of moi so that this one might be useful for anyone interested in the actual topic?
the topic is training a sav.

haha- as i was typing this reply, Buzzy woke up and came out for breakfast. He's got his act down pretty well now. He just gave me 4 perfect kisses, got all he wanted, then dashed madly off exploring now.

Any professional behaviourist will see the obvious in the vids. Someone with an agenda of prejudice may not. But in the end, i have the savs. They are lovely pets.

[crocdoc]

What fallacy? The story about the 'drowning/saving' technique to 'tame' a monitor was from YOUR webpage which YOU posted a link to. Shall I dig out the link or have you taken that site down?

As I said before, I'm neither here nor there with the training thing. It's the abuse of animals (as per aforementioned 'taming' technique) that I really object to.

By the way, if you want an animal that really does tricks well, buy a dog. They've been domesticated for thousands of years for that very purpose and no wild animal has to be captured in the process. (your savs probably weren't captive bred - I know that you bought the line that they were, as do most people).

[danceswithsavs]

Please post the link. The site belongs to a reptile trainer- it's not my site.

[crocdoc]

[danceswithsavs]