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Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred
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Scott W
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Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 13355
Location: London, England.
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 Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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very nice Rick, any details on how your keeping them 
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Rickeezee
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Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 9249
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Scott W wrote: | | very nice Rick, any details on how your keeping them |
Yeah all together in a shoe box.
I have a very large viv and they all live together in the one viv. I know this is controversial and often frowned upon. But I have had them since they were wee tiny things apart from Stacey.
Numerous hours have been spent watching them for signs of stress etc. They have never fought not even once, the closet to any form of aggression they have demonstrated is the odd mouth opening, even that is an extremely rare occurrence. They tolerate each other and tolerate each other very well.
They are extremely healthy and for Yemen's are all of a very good size.
The group dynamics are very interesting, they show no dominance whatsoever in terms of hierarchy one day one will take the highest position another day another one will. They sleep close togehter and at times two of them sleep right next to each other.
As the group grew older and reached sexual maturity I was concerned in case with the hormones kicking in there would be trouble, but there has not been.
Two basking sites are provided and ample branches and plants etc if anything probably too many plants and hidy places.
Again at feeding times their is no particular dominance over who gets to feed first.
I do appreciate this is a controversial way to keep them. But it has worked well so far they are an established group. They show no more signs of stress than any other of my chameleons that are housed separately.
When I first got the Yemen's I did not have such a large collection of reps, trust me when I say I spent a good few hours each and every day observing them. I even kept written records of their behaviors and the group dynamics and how the dynamics evolved over a period of time.
Interestingly the male, Alfie, is not continually trying to get laid. When the females are receptive to mating then he will mate with them. But he does not pester them when they are not receptive, even when they are receptive he is not a monster as some male Yemen's can be in the love making department. At certain times I will seperate out one of the females, ie, egg laying time and afterwards to ensure a good healthy recovery etc.
I would not advocate keeping more than one male togehter, but the 1.3 has worked very well thus far. In the wild one male will have a wide territory and take position high up in the branches of the tree, possibly to keep a wider look out for danger and male invaders. The females and young chameleons will inhabit the lower branches of the same tree.
Perhaps the group cohabitation has worked well as they have all been brought up togehter from a very young age, that they have a large viv , that they have adequate basking sites and that there is no competition for food as there is always an abundant supply on hand.
I am not saying how I house them is the right way or the only way. I am just detailing my experiences. Believe me if at any time I felt any one of my herps was in danger I would resolve the matter. I am also aware of underlying stress factors and the signs and symptoms, that may be not so obvious and may be encountered in the group situation, so I do take a responsible approach to the husbandry of the Yemen group, and am on the look out for signs of undue stress.
To date none of them has even bitten one of their fellow housemates!
I know similar postings on other threads and forums has created a Holy War almost. I post this as an account of my experiences and because I was asked the question how am I keeping them.
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JStroud
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 4095
Location: Bucks
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Great to hear its still working well for you Rick 
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Rickeezee
Site Moderator
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 9249
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| JStroud wrote: | | Great to hear its still working well for you Rick |
Thanks, I think it's down to using a huge viv plenty or basking sites and foliage and rearing them from a few weeks old together. They all feed together and the only time I saw some tension was when two of them went for the same cricket and it was stuck on both of their tongues at the same time. A tug of war ensued. No obvious hierarchy seems to exist either. Three of them will also let me stroke them under their chins.
I have kept written records of their interactions and behaviours for a long time now based upon daily observation. I can honestly say that not one of them has ever been injured or even been bitten by a fellow housemate (sounds like big brother). I rest the females in a seperate viv when required ie egg laying time etc. Often they will spend their day lazing about under the basking lamps right next to each other, they don't have to do this as there is ample space for them to bask away from each other. So I can only assume that they feel comfortable with this and don't see each other as a threat.
Interestingly; when on my travels, I have looked at quite a lot of other Yemen chameleons, mine appear to be very large in comparison to the other adults that I have seen, even the females are a good size. This is probably a genetic thing or just pure chance, I am not sure if the housing method has influenced this at all.
When Franz F (Panther) comes out for a wander around I cover the Yemen's viv with a towell so as not to stress them out. Once I forgot to do this and they caught sight of him. The females became agitated and displayed the usual defensive / aggressive postures, darker colours, inflating their lungs and extending the gulular. Interestingly, the male Yemen took the highest position at this time in the viv and came to the front where as the females retreated to the rear of the viv.
If kept in a smaller viv with only one basking lamp and an inadequate food supply then the outcomes may well be different.
Contrarian as it may be to house them together, it is working and working well. I do know other people who keep theirs together, but due to the obvious controversy regarding this methodology of housing it is not often fed back on forums. This is a shame as in my view there is still lots that can be learnt about the potential and actuality of group housing.
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