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RonW CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 536 Location: netherlands
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Dragon Breeder wrote: | Nah, Jack Spirko has done a fair bit of research into the lamprophis species and he has bred the 3 together numerous times and got no fertile eggs.
Erik |
I find it quite remarkable that 3 very similar snakes from the same genus cannot interbreed, while in our hobby different genera can quite easily produce viable offspring. Look at pythons (morelia x python, morelia x liasis) or North American colubrids. Does anyone know another example where 2 species within the same genus fail to produce fertile eggs? _________________ Please visit Ron's Reptiles to see my collection
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Ailurus Captivebred Communist
Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 1626 Location: Hertfordshire, England
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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i have a non-reptile example.
When a Tiger and Lion are bred together. (They are both in the same genus Panthera) a liger is produced.
All male ligers are infertile and cannot reproduce. And most females are also infertile. There have been 2 cases where a female liger has produced offspring.
So sort of an example _________________ Tom
Snakes: :Pantherophis: :Coelognathus: :Lampropeltis: :Heterodon: :Antaresia:
Lizards: :Rhacodactylus: :Pogona: :Goniurosaurus:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Ailurus27 |
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RonW CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 536 Location: netherlands
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Ailurus wrote: | i have a non-reptile example.
When a Tiger and Lion are bred together. (They are both in the same genus Panthera) a liger is produced.
All male ligers are infertile and cannot reproduce. And most females are also infertile. There have been 2 cases where a female liger has produced offspring.
So sort of an example |
Not quite, the offspring is still viable (the Liger), even though it is infertile, much like a mule.
With reptiles so far the reproductive barriers biologists used to assume between species seem a lot more flexible. _________________ Please visit Ron's Reptiles to see my collection
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Dragon Breeder CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 536 Location: East Kilbride, Scotland
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ron: they are both Lamprophis species indeed, but so far have been proven not to interbreed & produce viable offspring, i really don't know why - they seem to be related via looks but have no common ground genetically, it may also be worth taking note that Lamprophis mentalis does not produce viable offspring when bred to the afore mentioned species but is also very similar in looks.
species like L. lineatus also do not breed with L. capensis to produce viable offspring although they are both the lamprophis species, why? i don't know but that's the facts as i know them lol.
i believe that Mehelya subspecies also do not cross, M.c.capensis & M.c.unicolor, but i have absolutely no knowledge with Mehelya species.
its like trying to cross a Chinese Water Dragon with an Australian, both Physignathus but nothing comes of it (to my knowledge)
Erik _________________ Reptiles by Erik Paterson
1.1.0 Chinese Water Dragon
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon
8.10.11 + 14 eggs Cape House Snake
0.2.1 Leopard Gecko |
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slangman I've settled in...
Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 36 Location: liverpool
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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just to chip in my few pennies to the argument . We all know of the several crosses and intergrades between the pythons of the world , even to the extent of the chondros mixing with carpets but alas , housies dont mix . Many will claim they have crossed these snakes and had fertile eggs . Till this day (and i include the written account from housie enthuasiats whom have over a century of experience combined) none of us have ever seen a pic or snake which constitutes a cross between L.fuliginosis , Lmaculatus and L.capensis . There are loads of claims out there but no evidence what so ever . I personally have a male Fuliginosis that i have paired to 3 different L.capensis females and not a single viable or even remotely fertile egg has ever come of it . These are both proven adults that have bred with their own subspecie . I have several pics of the matings from the group but not a single fertile egg. It is probably 1 of the main reasons why housies havent taken off big time and that is that the confusion over the spp. results in collectors sitting with uncompatible animals . It has only recently been discovered that the snakes from SA (capensis) are a different subspecie from those north of Tanzania . Puzzles me as to why corns and ratsnakes and kings can intergrade to easily (myself having done this many times with these snakes) yet housies dont . _________________ African House Snakes .....
http://lamprophis.proboards62.com/ |
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RonW CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 536 Location: netherlands
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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On the positive side: No purity issues! _________________ Please visit Ron's Reptiles to see my collection
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slangman I've settled in...
Joined: 03 May 2007 Posts: 36 Location: liverpool
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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RonW wrote: | On the positive side: No purity issues! |
well said mate ! _________________ African House Snakes .....
http://lamprophis.proboards62.com/ |
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Dragon Breeder CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 536 Location: East Kilbride, Scotland
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Very true Ron lol _________________ Reptiles by Erik Paterson
1.1.0 Chinese Water Dragon
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon
8.10.11 + 14 eggs Cape House Snake
0.2.1 Leopard Gecko |
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Dragon Breeder CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 28 May 2006 Posts: 536 Location: East Kilbride, Scotland
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Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Dragon Breeder wrote: | Nah, Jack Spirko has done a fair bit of research into the lamprophis species and he has bred the 3 together numerous times and got no fertile eggs. Thus coming to the conclusion that capensis fuliginosus and maculatus do not "hybridize" they reportedly successfully breed with certain other lamprophis species, the fact that the green crossed with the capensis would suggest that it was indeed a cape.
the head stripes & lack of pattern would also suggest that it is lamprophis capensis.
fuliginosus lacking the head stripes, or having very light, almost un-noticeable head stripes & maculatus having a dotted pattern.
Erik |
I stand corrected, it was a fella called Mike McDonald who had tried breeding the snakes together with no success.
Erik _________________ Reptiles by Erik Paterson
1.1.0 Chinese Water Dragon
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon
8.10.11 + 14 eggs Cape House Snake
0.2.1 Leopard Gecko |
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Lynne ___________
Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 8265 Location: Kincardine-on-Forth
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: |
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i tried to look, and its saying the thread doesnt exist!!!! help! _________________
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