Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

Morbid · Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: Chamaeleo chamaeleon

Anybody keeping Chamaeleo chamaeleon? How difficult are they? I would like to have this species some day, so it wouldn´t kill me to find out some more about them.. Wink

_________________
*** Miqe ***

Assumption is the Mother of all f***ups.

Scott W · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:46 am Post subject:

I'm under the impression that they are quite difficult but that could be that they were imported as wildcaught in a bad condition and never given a good chance. I've not seen any for a good few years now, thought they were now protected from import too?
_________________

Please DO NOT pm orders for reptiles, send email instead scott@captivebred.co.uk

Morbid · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject:

Scott W · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject:

They may be breeders somewhere, the Hamm show would be your best chance.

I understand your comments about wildcaught but remember if it wasn't for wildcaught we wouldn't have any reptiles in captivity in the first place Wink

_________________

Please DO NOT pm orders for reptiles, send email instead scott@captivebred.co.uk

Peter Parrot · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject:

Plus in instances where habitat has almost dissapeared it is better to gather specimens for captive breeding than to leave them to their inevitable fate. A tad off topic I know but take Dart frogs for example, certain locale morphs of certain species are literally existing in tiny strips of suitable habitat left on the edges of roads and tracks surrounded by felled freeless deserts. Captive gene pools all benefit from a boost of fresh wild caught blood too. Whilst I agree that it is very wrong to de-nude an area of it`s wildlife just for the pet trade, there is more to it than that. To say that all WC should be avoided and is wrong is a wee bit of a sweeping statement. In certain cases it is a very good option for the animals concerned and some species on the whole definately need a bigger gene pool. There would be no point in breeding a captive population of a species if that population was inbred to the point of weakness where it would be of no help to that species.

I am sorry to go on about it , but we cannot afford to make such sweeping statements as "all WC is wrong" which I have heard banded about a fair bit lately. Every one jumps on the band wagon then. In a lot of cases it is wrong I agree, but many captive populations of herps do NEED the boost of healthy wild caught blood from time to time. I am not saying mass importation or anything but reasonable practical amounts.

Rant over and absolutely no offense meant to anyone at all especially you Morbid. It`s good to have you here , I hope that you find your "Common" (not really an applicable name any more perhaps!) Chameleons soon . I love your collection and can`t wait to see some more of your pictures. I hope that you see my meaning. Yes mass importation of endangered WC species for the pet trade IS WRONG , that has been proved beyond doubt many times. That doesn`t necessarily mean though that in every instance, the act of obtaining WC animals is wrong however. Sometimes it can be a good thing , both for us but more importantly, for the good of the species concerned, especially when it comes to sustaining a strong Gene pool just as in the wild rather than a weakened "captive strain" that would have no chance of survival in the wild if ever they were reintroduced/released into for example , an area where a species was once common, but now extinct and habitat regeneration had been put into practice. We can`t just right off WC animals as an option totally. Not all together.
_________________
YSBRYDOLI POBL, GWELLA LLEOEDD
INSPIRING PEOPLE, IMPROVING PLACES
www.btcv.org
Visit our website - Gwelwch ein Gwefan
www.btcvcymru.org
Llinell Gymorth / Helpline: 08702 40 48 41

Morbid · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject:

@ Scott:
I usually go to the Hamm-show every September, but I am often so busy with my own business that little time is left to actually look around..

I know that, no herptiles grow in terrariums "just like that", of course they have to come from Mother Nature.. I just mean that there is so many herptiles from so many species bred throughout the world these days, that wildcaught seems unnecessary to me.

@ Peter:
Wildcaught for saving.. Now, that´s a whole different discussion.

Of course you may, under some circumstances catch wild animals to breed, for saving that particular species or for that matter, save the species from a special locality.

It´s the commercial part of it that I don´t like. Catching for selling.

In other words.. I agree with you.
_________________
*** Miqe ***

Assumption is the Mother of all f***ups.

Peter Parrot · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject:

_________________
YSBRYDOLI POBL, GWELLA LLEOEDD
INSPIRING PEOPLE, IMPROVING PLACES
www.btcv.org
Visit our website - Gwelwch ein Gwefan
www.btcvcymru.org
Llinell Gymorth / Helpline: 08702 40 48 41

Peter Parrot · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject:

No one hates the mass importation of WC herps more than me Morbid. I remember seeing the tortoises in pet shops here in the 70`s and how the majority died soon after purchase. Imported in cramped and dirty conditions and then fed a totally inappropriate diet and kept in the wrong conditions, already weakened from their ordeal of a journey they stood little or no chance. I hate to see the numbers of Green iguanas imported now too.

One last point I will make and then I will shut up, I promise! Smile

If people/breeders in the past had been more scrupulous about avoiding the crossing of locales and sub species that would not normally meet in the wild and kept their animals as nature intended, then there would be even less of a need to draw back on the wild population. If , however, someone wants to make a genuine attempt to breed their existing animals true to how nature intended, available captive outcross blood is often of such dubious origin that to avoid producing a "mutt", WC blood is the only way of being sure of what you have.
I have found this for myself very recently with my Dwarf retics and you would not believe the difficulty, and the lengths that I have had to go to , to match the "pair" that I have (both different locales) suitably. Still haven`t managed it quite but nearly there. Basically, a person doesn`t KNOW that a Kayuadi is a Kayuadi, or a Kalaotao is a Kalaotao, or a Jampea is a Jampea, unless that person goes to the Island concerned and finds the real thing.

But yes, I am against the wholesale importation of animals for the pet trade. Would rather see a species in captivity then see it vanish from the earth though. This site is called "Captivebred" after all though, not "Wildcaught!" Laughing

_________________
YSBRYDOLI POBL, GWELLA LLEOEDD
INSPIRING PEOPLE, IMPROVING PLACES
www.btcv.org
Visit our website - Gwelwch ein Gwefan
www.btcvcymru.org
Llinell Gymorth / Helpline: 08702 40 48 41

Morbid · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:28 am Post subject:

Peter Parrot · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:27 am Post subject:

Good luck with your Chameleon hunt Wink

_________________
YSBRYDOLI POBL, GWELLA LLEOEDD
INSPIRING PEOPLE, IMPROVING PLACES
www.btcv.org
Visit our website - Gwelwch ein Gwefan
www.btcvcymru.org
Llinell Gymorth / Helpline: 08702 40 48 41