Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[Morphman]

Cheers Chaps,will put up some more pics in a while
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Regards Mark

[karr]

mark they are without a doubt stunning some of the Nice's jags we've seen this year
but we have to say, we do agree with Paul on the name thing mainly because we think it is a little genetically misleading as reduced ij jags is already termed with the 50% (reduced ij x coastal jag)

Roz and James
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www.southwestpythons.webs.com

[Morphman]

As I have stated Roz most people think the name I have used is a good description of them.I'm getting bored of saying it but they are 75% Irian Jaya Jags and they do have a REDUCED PATTERN.
I also personally think that Pauls would be best described as 75% New Guinea Jags,as that is what the reduced pattern Irian's are commonly known as.

Thanks for the compliments on them
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Regards Mark

[Donski]

Actually it's an interesting topic... absolutely no need to fall out over...

To the lay man 75% Irian Jaya Jag or 75% Diamond x Jag means nothing... (this is general Mark not specific to your thread)...

Are they 75% Irian Jaya ?, 75% Jag.. that goes for all the percentage type animals we see being offered these days.. Without knowing the parentage/pedigree the description is meaningless. Of course there's no easy way to simply state this, but I guess when advertising them People can call them what they want and then say HOW they were produced. Pictures of the parents would be good too, and should be easy enough in this day and age.

Don

[SteveL]

i agree with this guy ^ any jag you produce while crossing from one sub species to another cannot be termed exactly on a percentage ..as RonW
rightly corrected me previously.. i was wondering if he could chip in here as he works daily with genetics etc ?!?

on the reduced thing lmfao leave Mark alone hes not saying there somthing they are not is he

They appear reduced so hes offering them as reduced patterned
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[karr]

We agree with donski it is a very interesting topic, and we don’t intend on falling out with anyone it is just as you have stated an interesting topic.

Jags are a morph of mcdowelli that is being interbred into other spilota subspecies. As a rule with the jag morph the % followed by the subspecies is the percentage of subspecies bred in. The remainder is mcdowelli we think the problem really arises because of the poor classification of the species M.spilota. At the moment reduced Papuans are taxied named as morelia spilota harrisoni. The same as a standard papuan (ij) so in that respect there is 75 % Papuan (ij) influence 50% reduced in marks case. In order for there common name to be reduced New Guinea carpets, which would indicate they are not a Papuan (ij) there classification would need to be change. as regards to marks this would make his 50% new guinea 25% Papuan (ij) Jags.
It is really quite a major problem at present I think the only thing you could call them is 75% morelia spilota harrisoni Jags with 50% reduced influence

With all that being said and I know every one has there own views but we believe at present (along with some others) reduced Papuans to be a different subspecies of M.Spilota, One that has not been classified as of yet. Hopefully this may change in years to come as we are in correspondents at present with the national history museum on this very subject. So hopefully in the next few years we will all know what to call them one way or other.
Sorry that doesn’t help for now p.s anyone one with any info on reduced Papuans or what ever you call them pls pm me with it it will all come of use especially where you got them from and if you imported them what it stats on the import papers. It’s all data and could be of some use.

Cheers roz and james
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[Morphman]

The term reduced pattern is a description of my Jags,which is accurate.

I don't believe that reduced pattern Irian Jaya is a recognised name for a subspecies of Carpet python.They were reported to have originated from New Guinea,of which there isn't any concrete proof.For obvious reasons,I don't think that anyone would offer any.

It would be great if anyone could get accurate information on their definite locality.But I doubt it will ever come to light.

They have also been known as the Blonde Irian Jaya,and the poorman's Jag.

Good luck with your quest Roz,I think you'll need it.
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Regards Mark

[karr]

Thanks mark it is a quest and a half but hopefully with the help of the natural history museum something will come to light. Your jags are stunning and very reduced what you wish to call them is up to. You have always stated what there parents are and been open. What we have stated is to the best of our knowledge correct and we hope it is informative to carpet python enthusiast as we have stated it really all comes down to the poor taxonomy or M.spilota.

The taxon harrisoni at present refers to all carpet pythons of New Guinea (The name harrisoni is problematical. It would refer to all carpets in New Guinea) that’s a quote from Dave barker. This would cover both sides of the island.

so they are at current as long as they are from Papua New Guinea, weather it be the western half of the island Papua (formerly Irian Jaya) of Indonesia. Or the eastern portion the state of Papua New Guinea taxoned M.spilota harrisoni, common name Papuan carpet pythons (old recognized common name irian jaya). Seeing as they are taxon as M.spilota harrisoni surly it is fitting that the reduced pattern from of Papuan be known as reduced Papuan / irian jayas as the taxon stands now.

Cheers Roz and James
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