Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[Martinh]

I was thinking about this question t'other day and i realised i couldn't actually answer it! Which isn't good!

Is it simply the evolutionary pathway? i.e. All snakes in the colubrid family descended from the same ancestors.
The colubrid family is huge and really varied, for example if you looked at something like an indigo and then looked at a hognose you wouldnt exactly be bombarded with similarities.

Do all colubrids lay eggs? Are there other similarities throughout the family?

Should it be ordered differently?

So yeah, waht is a colubrid?

cheers

Martin

[peaches]

Ooh taxonomy, always a cracking topic eh?
Here's wikis colubrid one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colubrid

Although in a sense it doesn't explain much.

If I understand it correctly down the taxonomy chart of Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Suborder, Family, Genus, Species, Subspecies.

On the family one, this is what basically seperates the families of venomous and non venomous, then that is put in order using genus.

So basically most snakes are non-venonmous so would fall into the colubrid category, except boids.

The Genus & species is the main part of the taxa for identification.

and yes there are colubrids that are ovoviviparous - live young.
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[Martinh]

Cheers for that peaches, nice to see someone else is interested in the boring parts of herpetology!

It seems to me that the classification of the colubrid is a bit of a cop out really! Fair enough the family is not strictly used to identify species as it is supposed to be a general description but come on!

From what i can see the colubrid family is a family of mostly harmless, mostly non-venomous, mostly egg laying snakes with varying behaviour, sharing a lack of all vestigial limbs and mostly similar scalation and dentation.

More than just a bit vague!

It could be slimmed down slightly in my opinion.

For example the obviously venomous species of colubrid could be moved to a new family. Other colubrids with obvious differences the non egg layers and things like hognoses which have adapted teeth but not necessarily venomous.

I think this would make it easier to explain. i.e. no/less exceptions to a basic description.

Just an idea...

cheers

Martin.

[JStroud]

It is indeed a bit of a muddle taxonomically, don't forget about the boomslang as well!
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Regards James Stroud

[Mememe]

What would you people suggest as the groups they could be split into?
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No man is an Island. Except the Isle of Man.

[peaches]

None...unless you are willing to re-write the taxa and submit to the International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature.

Here's one of they charts for you, they confuse me more though
http://www.embl-heidelberg.de/~uetz/families/snakes.html

So you basically can only choose between blind snakes, boids or venomous and colubrids, since most snakes are non venomous, have vision and are not boids, they fall here....

I wouldn't think to hard on the family part of taxonomy and concentrate on the genus, this is where it all keeps changing lol
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[Pendlehog]

Either Dr Fry or Dr Wuster (or possibly both.. i forget) have looked into this problem and comcluded that there are in fact 7+ "families" within the colubridae grouping.
I will try to find the paper when I have a minute!
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-Hannah-

[Mememe]

[peaches]

Ooh yes please would love to have a read
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[coachwhip]

http://www.embl-heidelberg.de/~uetz/families/Colubridae.html

This is a rough grouping of the colubridae family.

More or less you get primitive snakes (burrowing snakes, boids etc) then you get the more advanced snakes (colubrids) then you get the front fanged venomous that evolved out of them.
Elapids were thought to be the most advanced snakes out there but now they are not too sure where everything fits as the venom components in colubrids are usually very close to elapid venoms, in quite a few cases they are even more potent. But if the elapids came directly from colubrids then where did vipers come from ? was the split a very long time ago or did they come from a different ancestor ?
Boomslangs are certainly from colubrids but they are extremely advanced colubrids sharing more factors in common with elapids, though most of the dangerous colubrids have different venom to other colubrids, vipers or elapids.
These are all vary basic workings though.

Mike