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Rickeezee Site Moderator
Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 9249 Location: Kent
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like a top plan to me! You get chams he gets a hangover! _________________ www.rickslivefood.co.uk
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brittone05 Contributing Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 94 Location: Wirral
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Oh yus a very costly one from my wishlist right now - got at least 4 more chams to buy yet before I am done with my wish list and then I want a pair of cresties too just cos lmao
He is gonna have ot get his a$$ into gear and get some work done ready for Christmas!!! |
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studiocham I'm new here...
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 5 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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I joined this site today because I just had to say Congratulations to Rickeezee! I saw this thread linked to a USA forum. It's wonderful news, more CBs in the world!!! I'm a melleri breeder from the USA, and I write a web site about melleri to dispel the myths and encourage good husbandry. I love hearing about clutches of CBs!
Rickeezee wrote: | TBH, before acquiring George and Mildred I was told and had heard ooo stay away from Mellors they are hard to keep and wont breed and basically are really hard chams to keep. |
Old timers say they are hard, but I find it's mostly stubborn folks, who won't observe and react to them, who have the most failure. Melleri like things they way they like them, and it's mostly a matter of keeping them happy. Someone once told me, "Melleri are for people who really love chameleons." We accept their demands in exchange for the honor of witnessing their secrets and beauty.
Quote: | Within a few months of keeping them thye started to display their courtship rituals, which are absolutely fascinating, and can last for up to 6 months before the female may let the male do the do, if she does let him at all! How frustrating! |
It sounds like your George and Mildred were much like my Ferris and Grace. LTCs, raised Ferr from a WC juvenile, CH Grace had a couple infertile clutches, then the big Whoop Woo clutch, as you say!
Quote: | Well I have never seen anything like it, thye ended up frequently dancing holding front legs moving back and forth along their branch. What an amazing sight, I felt truly honoured to witness this. |
Your observation of the courtship is similar to mine, and yes, it is BIZARRE and entertaining, compared to that of other species. Did George start out by standing on her back, like a pygmy leaf chameleon courtship? Ferr did that, and I was worried he couldn't even buy a clue... but he figured it out in time.
Quote: | After a couple of months of this glorious courtship ritual Mildred succumbed and the mating took place several times over a period of about a week. |
How could she resist his charm?
Grace also laid without problem, and the weird thing was, when I checked on her basking that morning, I just knew she was going to lay them that day. She did. She had a fondness for laying in their potted trees.
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These are a superb and lovely cham to keep and wow what an experience it has been and will continue to be! |
They are too much fun, and like you, I lost myself for hours just watching the communal baby cage. I set them up in our kitchen, and they were such fun! I swear I got nothing done during the day, for months. ha ha If you start early with food association and rewards, they will grow up utterly bombproof. It got to the point where I would lean in to clean their cage, and they'd start to swarm me. LOL Cute but a little nerve-wracking! If you keep them in a large group, make note of their social behaviors. They have signals and habits that are unlike other chams. They eventually learn to all defecate at the same spot, away from food and basking perches, and they have rank-establishing signals, it's amazing! I could go on for hours, but everyone else will be bored out of their skulls!
I got 50 hatchlings out of 87 eggs. More pipped, but I chose to not help them out, to ensure a strong group. The previous year, Grace laid even more eggs (infertile), but I dieted her down all year to get her back to a more reasonable number and protect her health. I sold most of the CBs between 3-6 months of age. I held back a handful, and have 4 large CBs still cohabitating. They'll be 2 years old in February 2007. I have a group of WC potential mates already waiting in the wings.
Absolutely the most vibrant and friendly pet melleri you'll ever see are those hand-raised without stress in captivity. Good job, and enjoy every minute, you are having one of the best experiences in keeping chams!
Hugs and cheers, and best wishes to all who adopt one of these little charmers! (And that's said without any chance of my placing on the list, being in another country! ha ha) _________________ Kristina Francis
http://www.melleridiscovery.com/ |
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Rickeezee Site Moderator
Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 9249 Location: Kent
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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I have found your website http://www.melleridiscovery.com/ to be invaluable, and have found it the only website with in depth information regarding the Mellors. Sadly apart from your site their is not much quality information about them available.
Am curious to know how a thread link for this was on an American forum? Am happy that it was just curious to know how .
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Melleri like things they way they like them, and it's mostly a matter of keeping them happy. Someone once told me, "Melleri are for people who really love chameleons." We accept their demands in exchange for the honor of witnessing their secrets and beauty.
I could not agree more, they are quite unlike any other chameleon I have kept. They certainly do have some amazing secrets to share and are a truly beautiful chameleon.
Did George start out by standing on her back, like a pygmy leaf chameleon courtship? When they did finally mate, after an amazing and lengthy courtship ritual, he did at first appear somewhat confused as to what to do, and mounted her in an odd fashion but after a while he seemed to get it right, well he must have done!
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They are too much fun, and like you, I lost myself for hours just watching the communal baby cage. I set them up in our kitchen, and they were such fun! I swear I got nothing done during the day, for months. ha ha If you start early with food association and rewards, they will grow up utterly bombproof. It got to the point where I would lean in to clean their cage, and they'd start to swarm me. LOL Cute but a little nerve-wracking! If you keep them in a large group, make note of their social behaviors. They have signals and habits that are unlike other chams. They eventually learn to all defecate at the same spot, away from food and basking perches, and they have rank-establishing signals, it's amazing! I could go on for hours, but everyone else will be bored out of their skulls!
Yes time just vanishes when I am watching them, but oh what fun! No please do go on about the rank-establishing signals I am extremely interested and I am sure other readers will be to. I am very keen on keeping them in groups, this appeals to me immensley, and I am very keen to learn from your experiences, as others will undoubtedly be to. So please post away!
Good luck with your new breeding programmes and keep us updated on their progress. Would love to see some pictures of your Mellors and their set ups, do you free range any of them?
Absolutely the most vibrant and friendly pet melleri you'll ever see are those hand-raised without stress in captivity. Good job, and enjoy every minute, you are having one of the best experiences in keeping chams!
I am enjoying every minute of it and will continue to do so, what an addictive speices they are. Thank you for your post and encouragement. Rick. _________________ www.rickslivefood.co.uk
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studiocham I'm new here...
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 5 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Glad to hear the site has helped!
Rickeezee wrote: | Am curious to know how a thread link for this was on an American forum? Am happy that it was just curious to know how .
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http://www.chameleonforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1779
Quote: | No please do go on about the rank-establishing signals I am extremely interested and I am sure other readers will be to. I am very keen on keeping them in groups, this appeals to me immensley, and I am very keen to learn from your experiences, as others will undoubtedly be to. |
Some of this I had intended to put into a book. You'll know stress in neonates when they turn gray striped, instead of green or black striped. Mine did everything in groups- eat, bask, explore, excrete, shed, roost. After a few weeks of age, they would line up at the food bowls and take turns to eat. Dominant babies pinch a forefoot and laterally compress, rock, but it lasts about ten seconds, and then everyone goes right back to normal. Rarely, a dominant baby will wipe its mouth on either side of the face of a submissive. After this, both animals go back to feeding and basking together. I suspect it's like dominance gestures among other animals: you don't interrupt or else the animals just have to start over where they left off, and you've only stressed them. If you witness anything like an adult biting or tail-lashing fight, you've got something different going on than my experience. If you have any runts, I recommend grouping the runts in their own enclosure. Each cage is/was outfitted with many perches, multiple basking spotlights, and multiple feeding stations (until I sold most and could reduce the stations).
Quote: | Good luck with your new breeding programmes and keep us updated on their progress. Would love to see some pictures of your Mellors and their set ups, do you free range any of them? |
Thank you, and I will. Many of the pix on the MD are my animals and set ups. Yes, I free-range as necessary for individual temperaments. Most of my collection is in enclosures, but I have two free-ranging, in quarantine, in another building.
Here are some uploaded pix, my babies are growing up!
The CBs insist on roosting together, even after they have passed the holding capacity of their original schefflera.
Here are four CBs, just hanging out together. We call this "scheming".
This was a very pretty but odd pastel phase on one of the CBs.
This fellow has unusual occipital lobes. Note they are not in motion or being raised, this is the resting position:
Same fellow, with attractive hornworm guts on his lip.
_________________ Kristina Francis
http://www.melleridiscovery.com/ |
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Rickeezee Site Moderator
Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 9249 Location: Kent
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Great pictures kristina, thanks for posting them up, lovely healthy looking chams!
My babies all roost together and even when awake stay in close proximity to each other lovely to observe these things within a group. _________________ www.rickslivefood.co.uk
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Rickeezee Site Moderator
Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 9249 Location: Kent
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Have just read up on your site about free ranging Kristina, I will have a deep think about this and may well give it a go as I will keeping quite a few babies back. _________________ www.rickslivefood.co.uk
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kroakykaren Site Moderator
Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 5270 Location: North East
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: |
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This is an excellent thread so informative. Kristina your site is marvelous
i will be reading it in depth.
Love Karen _________________
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Gongylus74 Contributing Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 74 Location: Swindon, England
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: |
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studiocham wrote: | I'm a melleri breeder from the USA, and I write a web site about melleri to dispel the myths and encourage good husbandry. I love hearing about clutches of CBs! |
I just wanted to say that like Rick I have found your website absolutely invaluable Kristina and it's great to see you on this forum. I'm yet to actually keep melleri but will be collecting my first (a 15-month old) in just a few short weeks and am so excited about it!
I've read and re-read huge sections of your website in order to give myself the best possible chance of housing it appropriately and acclimating it successfully with the minimum of stress, and feel that armed with your advice I will be successful!
Jonathan |
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studiocham I'm new here...
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 5 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for the compliments! I am so glad the site has helped others prepare. When I got started, it seemed like there was nothing solid on the species, but many unpleasant rumors. Now, melleri keepers have an international network, and it's just been wonderful to learn from each other.
How exciting, Jonathan! Is that one of the Bristol babies? I was just emailing with Tim this past week. Sounds like he has had success cohabitating some of his, too. Cohabitation and social habits of melleri is definitely an area deserving more trials and research in the wild.
If you find any errors, have new data, or want a topic addressed, please do not hesitate to email me. I am always changing the site, as we learn. Hopefully, in early November, the all-new format of the MD will go live, including new additions and replacements of dead links. _________________ Kristina Francis
http://www.melleridiscovery.com/ |
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