Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[AS]

I've decided I want to make my own gutload (I know it will be much more expensive than buying a ready made one, but if I stock up on health foods I'll hopefully benefit too) Anyway, I've looked at all the different products available and I have a pretty good idea what I want to include but how do you work out how much of each ingredient to include? All of the products I have seen proudly state that they use human grade ingredients, but a human dose is going to be much higher than what a lizard needs so how do you work out the correct amounts? I've read that a 100-10-1 ratio of D3-Vit.A-Vit. E is optimal and obviously Ca-P should be 2-1, so that's a starting point but after that I'm lost. If you want to know what I plan to include I can post it, but be warned it is a long list! ( I admit it I am a products geek, you caught me out!) Any advice you can offer will be welcome.
Thanks, AS

[Peter Parrot]

What are you feeding it to? Crickets or locusts? I would like to gut load my locusts better than I am but it`s difficult to get them to eat much other than their greens.
_________________
YSBRYDOLI POBL, GWELLA LLEOEDD
INSPIRING PEOPLE, IMPROVING PLACES
www.btcv.org
Visit our website - Gwelwch ein Gwefan
www.btcvcymru.org
Llinell Gymorth / Helpline: 08702 40 48 41

[AS]

Sorry, I should have been more specific, I want to make a different gutload each, for crickets, locusts and cockroaches. For locusts I was thinking barley malt, brown rice, oatmeal, wheat germ, amaranth, purple maize, quinoa, hemp seed, cabbage powder, psylium husk and cereal grasses(alfalfa, barley, kamut, oat and wheatgrass) What do you think? It includes grrains and green foods which is what they would eat naturally. The cricket diet I have in mind contains all of the above plus a whole load of other things like pollen, royal jelly, spirulina, chlorella, various vegetable poowders and dried fruits. Like I say I have no problem deciding on the ingredients(I think I have too many ideas to be honest) I'm at a complete loss on how to mix them in the correct quantities. Do you have any ideas, know where I could look to find any helpful information?
Thanks, AS

[Peter Parrot]

Sounds worth exploring. I am no expert though there are a few people on here that are far more qualified to comment than me.

It may depend on which species of locust that you have as to what you can feed them. The species I have eats mainly leafy greens but there is a less commonly available species that is more commonly available on the continent which eats grasses rather than leafy stuff.

Getting mine to eat much else other than greens isn`t easy.

Hopefully someone can chip in with a guide to proportions of ingredients as I too wouldn`t know where to start!
_________________
YSBRYDOLI POBL, GWELLA LLEOEDD
INSPIRING PEOPLE, IMPROVING PLACES
www.btcv.org
Visit our website - Gwelwch ein Gwefan
www.btcvcymru.org
Llinell Gymorth / Helpline: 08702 40 48 41

[Rickeezee]

Sounds like a good project, but complex.

I tend to use a wide variety of fresh greens and salad every day for my locusts plus wheat bran with a pinch of milk powder.

For my crix I use a wide range of fresh green veg , salads and carrot, wheat bran with a pinch of milk powder and I add to the bran calcium plus gut load for crix by T-Rex.

I use nutrabol and calypso for dusting on a scheduled programme for each speices and for each state of growth, being gravid etc.

I tend to rely upon mass produced supplements as I know the quantities have been well formulated, I am quite worried about over supplementation as opposed to under. Part of this regime is also influenced by the type of UV tubes I use where appropriate. Plus temps for diff species due to food assimilation and calcium uptake and assimilation.

Ditto correct temps for crix and locusts. if they are not at high enough temps the food in their guts is worthless and decays as opposed to being absorbed. So is like feeding an empty shell to the herps.

Quite a complex matter when you look deeply enough into it all.

I did have somewhere a table that someone produced of all the diff feeder insect nutrition breakdowns, plus all the individual quantities of items in commercial supplements for herps. I hope I have saved it somewhere, probably have but can't for the life of me remember where! if I can find it I shall post it up.

I wish you luck and keep us posted sounds very interesting indeed, a good piece of work!
_________________
www.rickslivefood.co.uk

[Peter Parrot]

Do your locusts tuck in to the bran Rick? The vast majority of mine dont even look at it when I offer it. Greens seem to be all that they are interested in.
_________________
YSBRYDOLI POBL, GWELLA LLEOEDD
INSPIRING PEOPLE, IMPROVING PLACES
www.btcv.org
Visit our website - Gwelwch ein Gwefan
www.btcvcymru.org
Llinell Gymorth / Helpline: 08702 40 48 41

[Rickeezee]

[Jas]

Here is a link to an excellent site detailing everything there is to know about vits and mins and there quantities of virtually every ingrediant.
http://www.nutritiondata.com/index.html

Most gut loads on the market have a base ingrediant of something like layers mash thats cheap and then the other ingrediants you listed are added in just small amounts.Im still working on my gutload diet and have tried literally a hundred ingrediants, what i have been doing is putting in small amounts of single ingrediants just to see if anything will actually eat it, as you will be supprised at the amount of ingrediants that have an excellent vit and min content but nothing eats it so not worth putting in the finnished mix.The other thing to watch for is some ingrediants may have good content but also be a little high in phosphorus and so a few ingrediants like that and the finished mix will probably well outweigh the calcium content.
As for the cost , your right it will work out more expensive as some of those ingrediants you listed are quite expensive, but at least you know its good stuff going in it, thats why you see some gutloads for say 4 pound and others of the same weight for 10 pound, just depends on how much of the good stuff they put in it.

[Peter Parrot]

I shall have to check. Not fond of oat bran then?
_________________
YSBRYDOLI POBL, GWELLA LLEOEDD
INSPIRING PEOPLE, IMPROVING PLACES
www.btcv.org
Visit our website - Gwelwch ein Gwefan
www.btcvcymru.org
Llinell Gymorth / Helpline: 08702 40 48 41

[Rickeezee]