Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[apocalypse]

i saw this on another chatsite and thought i'd share his comment s with you all. Do you agree or disagree with feeding small "goldfish" to water dragons or other herps.




"Ok, first off, i think you’re all over reacting a bit here. Fish are an excellent source of whole prey. Yes, they are more likly to have parasites then other types of food. However the benefits far out way a few parasites, if your lizard is healthy, and is getting regular check ups, and you are feeding fish that are "relativly healthy" you will not have to worry about parasites, especially when parasites in water dragons is incredibly common.
No fish won’t get stuck in the throat. they are less "bony" then pinkies, and the slide down the throat much easier.
You should be feeding guppies or minnows, not gold fish. Gold fish are big and crunchy. Mostly big.
Throwing them on the ground infront of your water dragon and having them flop around is an easy way to feed them. My water dragon very rarly tried for the ones in her water bowl, sometimes she’d look.
I just want to say that, just because you are worried about a few parasites( which exist in crickets too) please do not limit your water dragons diet even more by crossing off one more food source."

They are not my thoughts on the subject may i add!!!!!!
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2.3.4 bearded dragons
1 horsfield female tortoise
1 hermans female tortoise
0.0.1 young water dragon

[baloo]

first of all i don't agree feeding anything live unless it is an invertabrate
2nd feeder goldfish can result in a thiamine or something called simular deficiency. that is something many fishkeeper using feeder goldfish face.
i have an article on line where an american reader took offence to my views about eveyone to themselfes but i recon its ethnics and the animals welfare thats most important.
a cornered mouse biting my tegu is not in my animals interest
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ULI

[Scott W]

I used to work in a reptile shop that sold 100's of goldfish as feeders for reptiles, mainly water & garter snakes. I think the defficency you're talking about is from feeding defrosted sea water fish (although can't remember exactly).

As for the ethics of live feeding goldfish, I would imagine that they suffer FAR less than the average COD that is pulled from the north sea and then suffercated due to a ton of other fish on top of it.
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Please DO NOT pm orders for reptiles, send email instead scott@captivebred.co.uk

[Peter Parrot]

I think you`ll find that the freezing process kills the vitamin D.

I had a set up for Chinemmys reevesi (Reeves turtles) years back with guppies in the tank with them. The fisn added interest to the tank and bred freely. The occasional unwary/old/sick or young fish got snapped up by the Reeves too which supplemented their diet and I saw nothing wrong in it.

Interestingly enough, there was a pair of Asian water dragons in the same set up (paludarium) but I never saw one take a fish.
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[Cornuta]

I can give one excellent reason for not using live fish... and a few others

it is something that comes up again and again on the octopus forum that I help run and that is that fish from aquarium shops are normally treated with copper based medicines. They do no harm in the long run to fish but can build up an overdose of copper in predator animals very quickly. In the case of octopuses; it is lethal almost immediately but i bet it is pretty unfavorable to other animals too. Goldfish are by far the worst offenders.

Also, a pinkie has yet to develop strong bones so a fish is going to be far more bony!

On another note, I feed a lot of fresh unfrozen octopus, squid and RAW tiger prawns to my fish... the monitors love all three and are more 'excited' over them than fluffs! I'd say that they are getting a great protein diet of invertebrates along with the fluffs and locusts.

by contrast, all of my animals, apart from the snake neck turtle, turn their nose up at the likes of silverfish as sold for animal consumption.

Baloo, you are right, animals fed a diet of live goldfish can develop a thiamine deficiency... I bet you have seen red tail cats with it???? most of them have

cheers
Colin

[Cornuta]

should also mention that I weekly give my Mbu puffer a local caught shore crab to munch on, helps keep their teeth worm down... the monitors love them too!!!!

C

[baloo]

thiamine thats it
thanx dave
rtcs and rays as do most big preds feed primarily on goldies or whitebait
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ULI

[mark_w]

I don't have any ethical issues with using live fish (or other small vertebrates) as feeders.

Also, the first post specifically recommends NOT feeding goldfish, and so problems associated with this are irrelevant.

One of the best (semi-) naturalistic enclosures I've seen is a mixture of piranhas and guppies at the Regents's Park Aquarium. There are millions of guppies and only dozens of piranhas, and so their reproductive rate outweighs the predation pressure...

Presumably, the copper medication problem would be sidelined if you bred your own guppies (or other livebearers)...

Mark.

[baloo]

there is nothing natural about such a setup
piranha come from south america and guppys from central america.

i'm not having a dig but when it come to aquatic biotopes a d fish i am a bit of an anorak and mixing species from different locations and biotopes are not acceptable at all to me. it really anoys me when i see things like that or even hear about it
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ULI

[Cornuta]

Hi Mark

the original post states 'not gold fish. Gold fish are big and crunchy. Mostly big.'

yes, it does say that goldfish are not to be used but i was trying to be a bit more exact than because they are 'big and crunchy'

also, i bet that the piranha at the public aquarium never even try to eat the guppies as they are so fat on other foods. been there...

'I don't have any ethical issues with using live fish (or other small vertebrates) as feeders.'

me neither

cheers
Colin