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Lynne
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Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 8265
Location: Kincardine-on-Forth
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 Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| The Medusan wrote: | Hi Baz, I think you're missing the point - the animal has been feeding perfectly previously so why, this time, has it refused if it has been kept at the same temperature? Incidentally, the opening post doesn't indicate whether or not the temperature quoted is ambient or DTH so, again, it would be very wrong to assume husbandry is at fault.
Secondly - and despite what you may have read on other forums - temperatures are very, very rarely the cause of non feeding. In fact, only in the most extreme cases where the ambient temp drops below a level that inhibits comfortable digestion (i.e below 75 degrees F). I can prove this quite simply by the fact that I - and a number of my peers - keep BPs of various ages at a variety of temps (from 80 - 105 degrees F) who all feed (and breed) perfectly.
It is vital to remember that it is PERFECTLY NATURAL for Ball Pythons to stop feeding for extended periods of time. It is NOT stress related, neither is it anything to with husbandry it is simply they're biological make up. |
i disagree there. temps should be checked first in my opinion. when i got the females temp back to what it should have been she ate. mine eat when its breeding season and stop when it isnt. and bazzer has asked for more info. the slightest thing seems to stop bp's eating. i have one who eats for 8 weeks and stops for 4. breeding season or not. it always helps if the temps are right and i would always check these first. and my ambient temp never goes below 78. i think i would freak if it did!!!!
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The Medusan
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 233
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| Lynne wrote: | | i disagree there. temps should be checked first in my opinion. when i got the females temp back to what it should have been she ate. mine eat when its breeding season and stop when it isnt. and bazzer has asked for more info. the slightest thing seems to stop bp's eating. i have one who eats for 8 weeks and stops for 4. breeding season or not. it always helps if the temps are right and i would always check these first. and my ambient temp never goes below 78. i think i would freak if it did!!!! |
Well I don't want to cause an arguement and I don't profess to be an expert but it is an indisputable fact that ambient temperatures within the norm have nothing to do with BP feeding responses. |
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royalpython
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 484
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: |
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i'm all for research into royals.
Were your royals kept at 80F basking temps medusan? I do know they attempt to regulate body temps of 84F... so 80F would seem considerably low 
However, i do agree with you medusan. If the snake has been feeding in the past, there's really no need to change anything. Some of the non-feeding, or fussy threads can annoy me a little... i just wish some the advice given was more simpler... "leave them"... if they've eaten before then they will again, eventually 
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Lynne
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Joined: 30 Jul 2007
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Location: Kincardine-on-Forth
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: |
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i dont think you are causing a row anywhere. we all only state our opinions. some folk might like them some folk might not. its no reason for anyone to cause rows. i would just check temps before anything. heat mats fail, stats fail. if they arny checked how do we know. 
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The Medusan
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007
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Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Bazzer wrote: | | I would tend to think that the very fact in the opening post of it only mentioning one single temperature range of 30c (86f) alone would be enough to suggest that non feeding in this scenario could well be as a result of husbandry issues ... |
Hi Baz, you really, really need to read the first post again CAREFULLY before "rushing through the post ..."  If you do you will notice that a temperature gradient is very clearly implicit. Trust me on this, incorrect husbandry is not the reason why the snake isn't feeding and by doing nothing Sharpy will almost certainly have him feeding again when the snake is ready.
Now apologise to Crusher ... |
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Bazzer
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 313
Location: Horsham, West Sussex
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Royal male issues!! |
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| Sharpy wrote: | Hi All,
It seems my Male Python doesn't fancy eating, plus he seems to staying in the "cool" area of his tank. Its about 30 C in the tank and never had an issue with feeding after his winter fast before but this time he just doesn't seem interested.
Not sure if this is normal but just want to be certain, any advice would be really useful.
Cheers
Sharpy |
Hi Dave.
Show me where it gives a temperature gradient. The only figure I see in there is 30c. It makes mention to a 'COOL' end, but each and everyone of us has an end we refer to as a cool end, but in this quote above, there is no mention of a temperature gradient. It needs clarifying by Sharpy if he has a temperature gradient, which is what I have been talking about all along. There is a lot of missing information we would like listing, so we can help.
With regards to my SUGGESTION he checks his husbandry, I stand my ground firm and maintain that this should be looked into and if he chooses to take this advice, as I did when I had the same issues, then thats fine. If he chooses not to take the advice to check his husbandry, then that too is fine as it is up to each individual what they choose to do.
As I have said above in previous posts in this topic, there is a lot more information that is required by us, if we are to help. If I had a snake, which hadn't eaten for the best part of winter, with it now being nearly July (hence only about 3 months away from another potential fasting period) i'd be wanting my snake to eat.
As you know, I am very finicky about my husbandry with both the boas and both the BP's. Touch wood, it has always been very worth while as i have never had any bad sheds and feeding has always been about 90% sure thing they will eat. On the rare occasions they do miss a feed from the tongs, they always take it over night. I maintain that husbandry has a lot to do with any snakes health care and appetite and to ignore it as a 'possibility' for not feeding is simply idleness. IMO of course. .
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The Medusan
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 233
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Royal male issues!! |
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| Bazzer wrote: | Hi Dave.
Show me where it gives a temperature gradient. The only figure I see in there is 30c. It makes mention to a 'COOL' end, but each and everyone of us has an end we refer to as a cool end, but in this quote above, there is no mention of a temperature gradient. It needs clarifying by Sharpy if he has a temperature gradient, which is what I have been talking about all along. There is a lot of missing information we would like listing, so we can help.
With regards to my SUGGESTION he checks his husbandry, I stand my ground firm and maintain that this should be looked into and if he chooses to take this advice, as I did when I had the same issues, then thats fine. If he chooses not to take the advice to check his husbandry, then that too is fine as it is up to each individual what they choose to do.
As I have said above in previous posts in this topic, there is a lot more information that is required by us, if we are to help. If I had a snake, which hadn't eaten for the best part of winter, with it now being nearly July (hence only about 3 months away from another potential fasting period) i'd be wanting my snake to eat.
As you know, I am very finicky about my husbandry with both the boas and both the BP's. Touch wood, it has always been very worth while as i have never had any bad sheds and feeding has always been about 90% sure thing they will eat. On the rare occasions they do miss a feed from the tongs, they always take it over night. I maintain that husbandry has a lot to do with any snakes health care and appetite and to ignore it as a 'possibility' for not feeding is simply idleness. IMO of course. . |
Well it stands to reason that if you have a cool end by definition you must have a warm end and therefore a temperature gradient! It would be pedantic not to agree on this point.
I know first hand how well you look after your animals and I know you are only trying to be helpful and thorough in assisting Sharpy. However, I genuinely think your suggestion - although made with only the very best of intentions - is fundamentally damaging. I have seen this type of post numerous times and it concerns me greatly that keepers are being encouraged to change ideal habitat conditions or husbandry in an effort to spark a feeding response. Ball pythons fast, often for many months at a time, that is an indisputable fact and one that needs to be remembered when they "switch off". You can cause far more stress to an animal by unnecessarily changing its husbandry or habitat/environmental conditions.
Sharpy indicates in his post that he has not had an issue with feeding previously after the winter fast and he also MAKES NO MENTION of any changes to the snakes husbandry. Therefore, I maintain it is far better to just leave the snake as is, to offer its preferred food item periodically (fortnightly is ideal but certainly no more than once a week) and wait for it to "switch on" again which, invariably, they always do.
Incidentally I'm not at all clear why you think the snake is only 3 months away from another potential fasting period. It most likely will not "winter" until Dec - Jan 2009 depending on what the UK weather does (and that is something none of us have any control over. ) Are you getting confused with the Boa season? 
Lastly, if you don't agree with anything I've said I bet you will next year ... |
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Bazzer
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 313
Location: Horsham, West Sussex
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Royal male issues!! |
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[quote="The Medusan"] | Bazzer wrote: | Hi Dave.
Well it stands to reason that if you have a cool end by definition you must have a warm end and therefore a temperature gradient! It would be pedantic not to agree on this point.
I know first hand how well you look after your animals and I know you are only trying to be helpful and thorough in assisting Sharpy. However, I genuinely think your suggestion - although made with only the very best of intentions - is fundamentally damaging. I have seen this type of post numerous times and it concerns me greatly that keepers are being encouraged to change ideal habitat conditions or husbandry in an effort to spark a feeding response. Ball pythons fast, often for many months at a time, that is an indisputable fact and one that needs to be remembered when they "switch off". You can cause far more stress to an animal by unnecessarily changing its husbandry or habitat/environmental conditions.
Sharpy indicates in his post that he has not had an issue with feeding previously after the winter fast and he also MAKES NO MENTION of any changes to the snakes husbandry. Therefore, I maintain it is far better to just leave the snake as is, to offer its preferred food item periodically (fortnightly is ideal but certainly no more than once a week) and wait for it to "switch on" again which, invariably, they always do.
Incidentally I'm not at all clear why you think the snake is only 3 months away from another potential fasting period. It most likely will not "winter" until Dec - Jan 2009 depending on what the UK weather does (and that is something none of us have any control over. ) Are you getting confused with the Boa season?
Lastly, if you don't agree with anything I've said I bet you will next year ... |
Dave, I am happy with what I have suggested on here and I find your remarks on it being 'fundamentally damaging' insulting and offensive to be quite honest. Its up to Sharpy what he wishes to do (i.e. leave the snake or check his husbandry). I have offered the same advice as I have found on literally hundreds of care sheets and other forums and felt I would pass this on to offer my help where I can because I know what its like to have a finicky feeder. It helped me know end when i received the same advice.
I do believe that he was asking for help rather than encouraging arguments, therefore I will no longer participate in this debate
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The Medusan
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Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 233
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Royal male issues!! |
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| Bazzer wrote: | Dave, I am happy with what I have suggested on here and I find your remarks on it being 'fundamentally damaging' insulting and offensive to be quite honest. Its up to Sharpy what he wishes to do (i.e. leave the snake or check his husbandry). I have offered the same advice as I have found on literally hundreds of care sheets and other forums and felt I would pass this on to offer my help where I can because I know what its like to have a finicky feeder. It helped me know end when i received the same advice.
I do believe that he was asking for help rather than encouraging arguments, therefore I will no longer participate in this debate |
Bazzer, I absolutely apologise unreservedly if I have been insulting or offensive. I definitely didn't mean it to come across as such and it shames me to think I have upset you. I should have kept my big mouth shut ... Sorry. |
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Bazzer
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 313
Location: Horsham, West Sussex
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'll let you off mate, but that's only because I still consider you to be my mentor and it does a person good to challenge the mentors occasionally.
All I want, is to offer help as i'm sure you want to do too and I hope our opinions have helped Sharpy in some way.
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