Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

jakeus · CaptiveBred Addict! Joined: 16 Jan 2007 Posts: 664

I know this is a sensitive subject for some but it has been asked for on another thread so thought we should all hear each others opinions.

Personally, i have just started live feeding my royals because they didnt eat for a period of 5-6 months. Perhaps this was because of husbandry problems, but temps were checked, as was humidity and they were all checked over for illness and parasites.

Since i have started live feeding just 4 weeks ago, my 07 male royal has put on nearly 150 grms of weight and my Het Albino male has been pounding them like theres no tommorow!

The problem is my female who hasnt eaten a single rat, which leads me to believe that live feeding isnt the answer for non feeders.

Other reasons for live feeding;
Its cheaper than buying defrost from the pet shop.
You dont have to make a CO2 chamber which can be expensive.
It has been said that live have more nutritional value.
It is more natural and may keep the snake actively searching.

Bad points;
The prey animal can sometimes attack the snake causing SERIOUS damage.
The snake can start to get a bit less friendly.
Actually seeing the rat die.

Well, thats all i have to say really! Feel free to add!

Scott W · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject:

Many years ago I did a trial with colubrids, live feeding one group of hatchlings and defrost feeding the second group.

I didn't weigh any of them but they all started at the same weight (as they were from the same clutch).

Without doubt those feed on live pinks grew way faster, . I used to feed live all the way up until they were on weaner mouse size and then switch to fresh kill. Unfortunately I didn't keep any records to show the actual difference but it was pretty easy to see the difference (both groups feed the same amount, only difference was livevs defrost).

I believe these results would be true for any species fed live or fresh kill.

With royals I wouldn't say that every non feeder will feed just because you offer live. I have had several go off food or arrive and not feed for up to 9 months. Then for no apparent reason they started again.

I would say that live feeding is a pretty efficient method of killing rats, and after seeing many 1000's of rats die via Co2 I don't think it's any worse a way to die (both methods are actually similar...suffacation).

Risks.
yes there are always risks when offering live but they can be reduced to almost zero.
Never fed live prey that is under fed or dehydrated is the most crucial.
Weaner mice are by far the biggest risk to any snake. Adult rats and mice tend to just stay in opposite corners where as weaner / hopper mice are more curious and more likely to chew the snake out of curiousity.
Always check snakes with live food in, you can leave for several hours but overall if a snake is going to eat it will do so within the first 10 minutes.

Under the AWB there are 5 freedoms, one of which is the freedom to act & behave in normal fashion. Under that clause you could quite easily argue that live feeding is an extension of allowing natural wild behaviour.
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Jase · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject:

I absolutely LOVE this as a debate topic! And before anyone says it or asks - live feeding is NOT illegal, nor should it be treated as last resort for non feeding snakes.

I find that snakes are more likely to feed on live prey, however as Scott said, there is no guarantee that a non feeding snake will take live prey.

I found last year that a few of my hatchling BCIs would feed so I offered them live mice (from my own stock), once they started feeding they grew a lot quicker than the defrost feeders on the same mice (from my own stock), even with the same amount of meals.

Imagine large scale breeders defrosting 50 rats and none of his snakes feeding. 50 wasted rats. Now imagine this happening every other week... I'll bet people would be surprised how much live feeding goes on in the UK, behind closed doors Wink

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bumblebee · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject:

well you will probably know by now (from the other topic) I feed all my snakes on live feed, and I have not ever noticed that they become more aggresive towards me, so that a myth.

wat is true however is that also a fullgrown rat can harm you're snake really bad. I'm quite surprised to see that in this topic it has been said that you can leave a rat or full grownmouse in with the snake for a couple of hours!!! A friend of mine left a big rat in with her boa and she went shopping, after 2 hours she got back to find her boa been eaten through to the spinal cord and she had to put it down. my own experience with this happened a month or 2 ago, i had put a (very) large rat in with my pink pastel and could tell from the start that it wasn't going to happen as it should. that rat took one long look at my boa and attacked it full on! me (with my stupid head) stuck my hand in there to get the rat out, well needless to say that i ended up in hospital with a bit of thumb missing hahaha i laugh about it now but it wasn't funny when it happened. BUT i'm still a pro live feeder!! stay with it till you have seen that the snake has got the rat and got it good!!! ow and me i keep a hammer at hand since my rat encounter hahaha Very Happy

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1.1 Hypo Salmon Boa (Gee Line)
0.1 Boa C.I. Orange
1.0 Boa Coral Albino (Kahl)
0.5 Royal Python
0.1 Royal Python Spider
1.0 Royal Python Jungle Pastel (Graziani)
1.0 Royal Python Mojave
0.2 Royal Python Labyrinth

Lynne · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject:

jeez i hope you are ok now!!!! one thing i noticed, was you all talk about your snakes 'growing' quicker. i have no opinions on live feeding, i just wonder why you all want the snakes to grow quicker? is it not better the put weight on at a slower pace, take thier time, and live longer?
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Jase · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject:

Lynne · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject:

oh sorry. so you dont all want them to grow quicker!!! Wink

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Scott W · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject:

Lynne · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject:

i didnt mention restricting food. did i? and i was only asking. as every thread, specially about royals, mentions weight. i think people tend to try and get it on quicker to breed, instead of letting the snake take its own time, and just enjoying being with them. but this is about livefeeding. i will bow out. Very Happy

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Scott W · Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject:

You don't need to 'bow out' the thread is about live feeding and a common observation is snakes fed live (or fresh kill) grow quicker than those on defrost.

Now common sense would suggest that snakes don't find many defrost prey items in the wild, so if they grow quicker on live or fresh kill who's to say that that's actually wrong and unnatural in terms of growth? Perhaps feeding frozen is actually stopping the snake growing at it's own pace?

just 'food for thought' Wink

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Please DO NOT pm orders for reptiles, send email instead scott@captivebred.co.uk