Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[James]

thank you for everybodys posts sorry i haven't replied sooner as I haven't been on much recently.

I think I better explain the situation better. One of my GF's friend has a spur thighed tortoise and she was told to peel the skin off fruit before feeding when i found out i said iam pretty sure it doesn't need to be done and this is what sparked the original post.

I know they also feed it the toroise pellet food (not sure on the make but its different coloured little round balls), it also gets cuttlefish. After reading Marks post about feeding mainly weeds and greens I have now past on this information.

If anybody could point me in the direction of a good care sheet which includes maybe a feeding schedule for hermans/spur thighed I can also pass this on and hopefully improve the life of this tortoise.

Also just a quick description of the setup its in a toroise table with a strip bulb (i presume some kind of UV bulb) and a ceramic heater the substrate is like very fine cubes of wood from what I can tell I have only seen it briefly. does this type of setup sound ok for a spur thighed.

[scrambled legs]

there is a tortoise forum called "shelled warriors"


this will answer every question you'll ever need to know. its a great forum.

take care

Neil.
_________________
1.2.0. Geochelone pardalis
0.0.1. Testudo marginata
0.1.3. Kinixys homeana
crested geckos, rabbits, guinea pigs, gerbils, cat, jackapoo, poodle, a gazillion fish.

[scrambled legs]

in my opinion, and its just my opinion,

the substrate for the tortoise needs to be soil and sand. a 60soil/40sand mix or 70soil/30sand
the sand being either childrens play sand or reptile sand. (it will be screened and bigger sharp bits taken out). the soil needs to be topsoil., you can get it from the garden but better still B&Q do it for x5 25L bags for a tenner. it is also screened and free from harmful things.


wood shavings go off quickly and attract germs, the tortoises don't like the smell of some types of wood, the vet bills to remove pieces of wood are expensive too. i'd avoid these, plus they cost more than buying soil. so would you rather pay more for something that isn't natural and can cause problems?

you can use hemp but the sand soil combo works out cheaper for volume.

to replicate the light from the sun in the most natural way possible, keep the strip bulb, as long as the strength is 10.0 .
arrange the bulb so that the tortoise is no less than 12 inches away from the bulb, get a uv detector from a reptile store for about £2 and you'll be able to see how much uv its kicking out. replace the bulb every 7-8 months.

personally i wouldn't use the ceramic bulb, yes its nice for heat but the tortoise is used to basking under a big bright sun. not some dark object that just emits heat. for about £5 just get a reptile bulb with a hotspot. different meds like different temps but if you keep the centre hotspot to 30-31c AT ONE END then the tortoise can choose from the cold end to the hot end what temp to bask at.

it doesn't matter what size heatbulb you use because you can adjust the height of it to the correct temp. obviously don't get a 250w for a year old hatchling but 50 to 75w should be fine used correctly.

greens were mentioned above for feeding. please don't feed the tortoises greens such as sprouts, cabbage, kale. these contain a chemical known as oxalates.
Oxalic acid binds with important nutrients, making them inaccessible to the body, regular consumption of large amounts of foods high in oxalic acid over a period of weeks to months may result in nutrient deficiencies, most notably of calcium. Oxalic acid is a strong acid, and is irritating to living tissues all by itself. Extremely high doses are fatal. Oxalates, on the other hand, form tiny little insoluble crystals with sharp edges, which are also irritating to tissue. So, high levels of oxalic acid/oxalates in the diet lead to irritation of the digestive system, and particularly of the stomach and kidneys. They may also contribute to the formation of kidney stones (the most common form of kidney stone is composed of calcium oxalate). Also results in bladder stones in tortoises.

no greens. just weeds!

hope this helps.

Neil.
_________________
1.2.0. Geochelone pardalis
0.0.1. Testudo marginata
0.1.3. Kinixys homeana
crested geckos, rabbits, guinea pigs, gerbils, cat, jackapoo, poodle, a gazillion fish.

[mark68]

I would certainly agree with what is said above, especially about the substrate. Though I would go one further and say that where ever possible keeping tortoises of this, and similar species outdoors is much preferable.

Yes I would agree weeds, weeds weeds ! But is there any evidence that cabbage greens as a small part of the diet is harmful ? I eat cabbage greens a couple times per week, as do plenty of other people and I don't seem to be getting ill ! The tortoise trust have recommended them (cabbage greens) as part of the diet for a long time. I tried getting onto their website last week acouple of times but it appears to be down, so I could check if there advice had changed.

[scrambled legs]

i was always told by the 'curator' of our tortoise club that if we ever had to feed greens in any way, to absolutely cover them in suppliment!

my girlfriend and i are quite strict about the diet of our tortoises and its only ever been sensible. when the weather is naff for a few days and not outdoor leopard temperature, i feed them a bit of opuntia cacti (de-needled) or a bit of aloe vera. not too much of the aloe because it'll give them the trots.

i might compile a weed list with pictures and post it here soon, i've got to do one next week anyways because i'm doing a tortoise stand at an agricultural show locally. we'll have some big sulcatas, leopards, nikolski's and some redfoots on show. our aim is to educate the general public!

Neil.
_________________
1.2.0. Geochelone pardalis
0.0.1. Testudo marginata
0.1.3. Kinixys homeana
crested geckos, rabbits, guinea pigs, gerbils, cat, jackapoo, poodle, a gazillion fish.

[mark68]

It must be quite a challenge to grow enough Opuntia. It is supposed to be high in calcium. We have a hedge of Opuntia ficus indica that is about 2 metres high and about 20 metres long. Forgive my ignorance but what are nikolski's ?

[scrambled legs]

we only have a small ammount of opuntia at the moment. There are a couple of tortoise keepers i know that have opuntia growing in their greenhouses with each potion of growth like a dinner plate! i keep meaning to get cuttings!

Testudo graeca nikolskii. i'm struggling to find you a link online to tell you about this tortoise. even pictures to do justice.

basically, of the spur thighed tortoises, there are a few subspecies, the biggest being the aforementioned.

i'm sure you'll know that the biggest med tortoise is the marginated tortoise which a good sized adult can reach around 45cm from head to tail, the nikolski is the next down. because of the typical high domed shell, these tortoises look and are very big. the marginal scutes at the back are somewhat flared too but not to a great extent. i'll post pictures here after the show.

mark, do you have any experience with defra? i've got 5 spur thighed eggs currently 'cooking' and the parent tortoises don't have certificates. the eggs were brought into the vets that my girlfriend works at and were incubating at our house before they were 24h old. i have no idea if they are fertile at this moment.
from what the man told my girlfriend, he only knows they are spur thighed and that the parents have no i.d.. hopefully somehow i can get certificates for them but i don't know what defra are going to say?.

any ideas?>

Neil.
_________________
1.2.0. Geochelone pardalis
0.0.1. Testudo marginata
0.1.3. Kinixys homeana
crested geckos, rabbits, guinea pigs, gerbils, cat, jackapoo, poodle, a gazillion fish.

[James]

thanks for all your comments, especially Mark and Neil. Everything that you have said does make sense especially the ceramic/bulb part. I know you probably hear this all the time but the tortoise isn't actually mine, as if it was i would of found out the answer to my questions before getting one. I will pass the information on and good luck with the eggs Neil hopefully you don't have to much trouble with getting certificates and ill be keeping my eye out for your weeds list.

[mark68]

Thanks for the info on the nikolski's. They are not one of the four (disputed) subspecies I had heard of. It seems tortoise taxonomy esp. re Testudo is still a bit of a mess.

Re DEFRA I have found them to be very helpful. I think they take a common sense approach in this situation. I would phone them or write to them, but I think from what I heard before that they will issue A10 certificates to people who have W/C torts from before the ban. But I think I heard that the paperwork does not allow you to sell such tortoises. But that probably isn't a problem ? Logically if you have paperwork for the adults you should be able to get paperwork for any young produced.

But I also think you only need paperwork for torts, if they are used for a commercial purpose anyhow, like selling them or their young. Don't quote me on any of this please check with them !!!

Good luck to your girlfriend James with her tortoises.