Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[Darky]

Ok giuys I'm thinking of getting some Juvenile Panthers to grow to adult, If I got a juvenile pair how long could I keep them together for ?

I'b be more than lightly using a medium exo terra to start with.

Additionally does anyone keep there adults in pairs togeother 24/7 or does everyone keep them seperate?

Just getting idea's.

Cheers James

[kroakykaren]

H James, i keep all mine seperate, that is so i can monitor them feeding etc.
I dont know what the rule of thumb is on keeping them together, as said in another thread each keeper does it differently.
My way just works for me so can only comment on the way i keep them, i have read of certain male panthers being depressed on their own when not with a female.
I think observation and monitoring will give you your answers, let the chameleons choose
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[BELIAL]

ahhh now this is a topic close to my heart!

The perception that chameleons are anti social creatures that like just their own company is one that has persisted too long. It is perpetuated by literature that continually states they should be kept individually when in fact it is peoples poor husbandry that leads to the untimely demise of one of a 'pair' and not the chameleons nature.

There have been studies conducted on chameleon interaction[Toxopeus et al. 1988] that have found that many species of chameleons do not lead an isolated lifestyle and that social interaction is a daily occurance.

There are only a few species that tend to not live in groups the flap necked chameleon is a prime example and even that starts life in dense population densities. It has been shown that certain chams even pair up and live together in the same environment. (furcifer oustaleti) being seen together over extended periods of weeks, even months.

In years of keeping various chameleon species i have yet had one die because of unwanted interaction with another cham. (touch wood and whistle). In fact i have experienced quite the opposite. The males of many species develop a strong bond with their females. I have known on several occasions a male to 'pine' for a female that has sadly passed away or been taken away. This has only been remedied by introducing another female.

With some species they need this intercation to function correctly. It has been knwon for many years that to keep a breeding group of panthers in tip top condition you should let them see another group regularly. i.e position them either end of a room...

Even a species such as the yemen benefits from this interaction and a male that sees another male will be much gentler in his courtship of a female.

Chams have colours for a reason and that can only be so they can 'talk to each other. If they were so antisocial that they didn't 'talk' why would they have such various colour changes?

It is a shame that this myth is perpetuated as many keepers miss out on the interaction and ethology that can only come from keeping pairs or small groups.

Yes it takes more work to keep pairs or even trios. But with correct husbandry it is very rewarding and just as natural for them as for us living together....

[kroakykaren]

Good post Ian, if we all followed every bit of written info we would never learn.

Keeping any herp is a huge learning curve, i myself keep a trio of carpet chameleons together now according to books this should not be done! mine are fine and all feed and interact without conflict.

My Panthers have visual contact with other panthers i dont feel this is detrimental to their well being. Discussions like this can do nothing but good for the keeper in general.
As i said its a huge learning curve, and we learn every single day
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[BELIAL]

[Darky]

Thanks Ian & Karen this is great information. I agree completly its a learning curve for us all & we never stop learning.

Cheers James

[mcfluffin]

Interesting discussion this one. Do you think enclosure size and dense foliage are key to keeping groups? Surely if the cham has 'somewhere to hide' (particularly females) then they will feel less stressed and get ob better with their mate? This is obviously assuming the correct nutrition, light, temperature and humidity are provided of course.
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[Darky]

Well i'm wondering what happens in the wild when eggs hatch do the neonates stay together & hide for the first few days or do they disperse as soon as they hatch?

I've not seen any information about chams in the wild & their behaviour as neonates.

James

[kroakykaren]

I would imagine they disperse James, so they dont become supper for any adult chams, as adults will eat babies i have heard.
Good cover is the key i suppose
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[Lumo]

Very interesting indeed Something to think about for when I finally get some chams of my own