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Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred
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unusual1
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 226
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 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Morphs are desirable for two reasons, one is their sheer beauty of the morph itself and the other is the fact that they are high value and not widely kept. Some people keep for one of those reason, others both. |
There is another Scott, breeding your own, = pride, success, and achievement. 
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Scott W
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 13355
Location: London, England.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| unusual1 wrote: |
If prices are better here the why import ? I agree with you that it's not the problem itself, never the less it's still looked upon as a bad thing when done in numbers.I don't blame breeders for bringing their prices down and trying to sell them as soon as they can, not only do the have to compete with more people breeding, and that's great,but also bigger breeders, websites with forums used to bring in custom and increase their collection ,and yes, imports, often advertised as the best quality royals.
Often these imports are grown on to, trying to sell your hatchling albino for £1000 held again est an import 5 times the size for the same price, well I no what I would buy.At the end of the day, many of these imports have made people very happy and that's a good thing for many reasons, I'm just trying to get across a breeders point of view that they have spent many years and hard work producing snakes. |
Prices are NOT better in the UK than what you can bulk buy for abroad, but that means buying a large number. Only a handful of people can afford or are willing to take the risk on importing (and believe me it is ALWAYS a risk).
I totally agree that there are people who are importing and selling under the UK market price which is wrong.
As for imports that are 5 times the size of UK bred stock, well I can't say I really agree with that as the rule, in fact the vast majority of USA imports I have seen (offered for sale here and in Europe) are tiny and around the 125g mark (obviously now it's later in the season then they will be grown on a little more). Yes mine are well grown on but that's an exception to most others.
Yes, I have invested in setting up a website, with a forum and yes of course that will help generate interest in my animals BUT unlike almost EVERY OTHER forum out there I DO ALLOW others to promote their animals, SPONSOR a section, Post up to answer if someone's looking for animals they have. I think you would have to agree that that is very fair and rare amongst forums connected to breeders. (that's not including the large amount of £'s I have spent building up a free classifieds site too  )
Pete, I totally understand your frustration in terms of importing and under selling but I don't think I can be connected to that in anyway. I sold out of my spiders way above the UK breeders prices (blimey didn't someone sell some at £200 a little while back?) I sold my ONE 2007 bumblebee for what you sold TWO for  . Overall people know that I am not cheapest but like I said I would much prefer people buying from me based on quality and service than 'being the cheapest'.
| unusual1 wrote: | | There is another Scott, breeding your own, = pride, success, and achievement. |
That's good point Pete, I don't just import, I also breed. I hatched more of my own royals last year than what I actually imported (ok, a number of those were normals or hets).
I have also spent a fortune on royals, in fact I have spent more on royals than I spent on my first house  So I too don't like to see imports or UK bred snakes undervalued and sold off cheap.
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unusual1
Key Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 226
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Yes, I have invested in setting up a website, with a forum and yes of course that will help generate interest in my animals BUT unlike almost EVERY OTHER forum out there I DO ALLOW others to promote their animals, SPONSOR a section, Post up to answer if someone's looking for animals they have. I think you would have to agree that that is very fair and rare amongst forums connected to breeders. (that's not including the large amount of £'s I have spent building up a free classifieds site too ) |
Scott, your free ads and forums are great, all I'm saying is that, I've seen this happen many times, someone says " I'm thinking of getting a Mojave " answered quickly by "I'll pm you" I'm not saying that's wrong or unfair, but a great advantage for sure, and fair play to you, you've put the work in and it's your forum.Also on the bottom of each post, wanted, your female royals 1500g and 2000g, it is all fair as anyone can do it, you have more than others done a good job doing this and has helped your profile.
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Scott W
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 13355
Location: London, England.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Pete, that's the great thing about the way we run this forum..ANYONE can reply to such a post ( http://www.captivebred.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19034 ) , you are more than welcome to reply to such a post. Your post won't be editted or deleted like what used to happen to mine over on livefoods (which incidently was the ONLY reason I originally
set this site up and then went on to set up the free classifieds).
As you say I do allow anyone to include things in their signatures etc, so it's an equal playing field for EVERYONE who particpates in the CaptiveBred Forums.
The same with the classifieds, I have FOUR python breeders displaying their banners in the header, of course if I was really business orientated I wouldn't allow any potential competition but I prefer to let people choose rather than pretend no one else is out there to buy from.
Thanks for your compliments on the forum and classifieds, it has taken a lot of time and resources to get them where they are today and of course wouldn't of happened at all without the support of those people who post messages / info or use the classifieds.
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unusual1
Key Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 226
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Pete, I totally understand your frustration in terms of importing and under selling but I don't think I can be connected to that in anyway. I sold out of my spiders way above the UK breeders prices (blimey didn't someone sell some at £200 a little while back?) I sold my ONE 2007 bumblebee for what you sold TWO for . Overall people know that I am not cheapest but like I said I would much prefer people buying from me based on quality and service than 'being the cheapest'. |
I'll hold my hands up and say I've sold snakes cheaper than others before, ( who hasn't ) but with no less quality and service.Being the "cheapest" doesn't have to mean poor quality or service.I recall talking to you about those bees, at the time I needed the money , all in all I was happy, it was a bulk deal, I think I recall over £4000 involved in total.Still looked like a good deal for the other guy, but for me at that point I no longer had the view of making money and it was then and is now more breeding your own, = pride, success, and achievement than cash.On the subject of quality, what makes a snake more quality than another if they are the same, ie feeding habits, colour, pattern, growth and so on ?
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Scott W
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 13355
Location: London, England.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| unusual1 wrote: |
I'll hold my hands up and say I've sold snakes cheaper than others before, ( who hasn't ) but with no less quality and service.Being the "cheapest" doesn't have to mean poor quality or service.I recall talking to you about those bees, at the time I needed the money , all in all I was happy, it was a bulk deal, I think I recall over £4000 involved in total.Still looked like a good deal for the other guy, but for me at that point I no longer had the view of making money and it was then and is now more breeding your own, = pride, success, and achievement than cash.On the subject of quality, what makes a snake more quality than another if they are the same, ie feeding habits, colour, pattern, growth and so on ? |
It's a hard one I must admit, I think perhaps with your bee's you didn't realise just how few were in the UK. I totally agree with you offering a great price on a £4k package. I only mentioned the bees because you were pointing at importers as to why prices have dropped. Also I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong your quality or service 
I think it's agreat shame that you have lost the passion/excitement with regards to the morphs, I was suprised when I saw you selling your stripe, knowing what great combos you could of produced.
With regards to quality, it's simple, there are pastels...and there are PASTELS...I'm sure you have seen the difference between some compared to others. This is the same for almost all the morphs...some are brighter, better coloured and patterned etc. Now of course this is all 'beauty in the eye of the beholder' but overall most people like the brighter more colourful versions of the same morph, so that to me indicates what the 'qualities' people are looking for from the morph they want to buy.
If of course they are as you described (ie feeding habits, colour, pattern, growth) then they are of the SAME quality and nothing seperates them.
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Central Scotland Reptiles
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 504
Location: Central Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Great post - very interesting.
The old saying, 'you get what you pay for' is never more true than when you buy an animal ( any animal ).
I believe that if you buy quality animals to start with, even if it ends up being 2-3 years down the line the babies you will produce will still be of equal quality. Buy substandard animals and 2-3 years later the resulting offspring will usually be substandard also.
Don't just buy an animal, buy the complete package - by this i mean don't just look at the animal itself look to see what additional 'extras' are being offered by the breeder / dealer i.e after sales help and advice. I would prefer help / guidance from the actual breeder not a third party ( importer ) if anything goes wrong.
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Fraser Gilchrist
Central Scotland Reptiles - "Finding Beauty in the Beasts" |
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mike h
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 778
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Don't just buy an animal, buy the complete package - by this i mean don't just look at the animal itself look to see what additional 'extras' are being offered by the breeder / dealer i.e after sales help and advice. I would prefer help / guidance from the actual breeder not a third party ( importer ) if anything goes wrong. |
well said 
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unusual1
Key Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 226
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | With regards to quality, it's simple, there are pastels...and there are PASTELS...I'm sure you have seen the difference between some compared to others. This is the same for almost all the morphs...some are brighter, better coloured and patterned etc. Now of course this is all 'beauty in the eye of the beholder' but overall most people like the brighter more colourful versions of the same morph, so that to me indicates what the 'qualities' people are looking for from the morph they want to buy. |
Very true Scott, but I never seen any evidence that any one breeder produces better looking pastels, Mojaves, lessers and so on than any other breeder.Mostly your young will be mixed, some ok, some good, some great.Anyone claiming to have better quality than others are just using quality as a sales pitch, I would go as far to say there is no UK breeder that produces higher quality than any other breeder.
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unusual1
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Posts: 226
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think it's agreat shame that you have lost the passion/excitement with regards to the morphs, I was suprised when I saw you selling your stripe, knowing what great combos you could of produced. |
I just couldn't get it out of my head that by the time I produce any combos they will be readily available to all, imported or otherwise.
I may as well sell the striped and in the years it would of taken me to produce these future compos I may as well buy them then.
My passion / excitement has always been about producing something different or new.
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