Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[Insectsunlimited]

Hi Scot,
Dave here & the words Giant & Mealworms are a misnomer. You have standard mealworms (Tenebrio molitar) that live in meal. Then you have Zoophoba morios which live on the forest floor in leaf litter & rotting wood. Because they LOOK like mealworms but are bigger, dealers call them giant mealworms or super mealworms but are actualy NO RELATION at all. Anything that looks basically like a mealworm... no matter what it`s size... will pupate into a beetle of some size or other... but are from totally unrelated species, live in different countries, in different habitats & on totally different foods. That is why morios will not pupate if treated as mealworms... because they are not mealworms.


"Rickeezee" Rick wil bear me out on this as he is following my instructions to get morio`s to pupate... en mass... & no doubt he will bear me out with his results in a few weeks time too.

Just to clear up how many dealers haven`t got a clue what they are talking about, I have scanned a few sites & am putting up extracts... & also the site addresses (so you can check) because you just won`t believe the waffle & bullsh*t they expect us to swallow to get us to buy their insects, cos they`re the best.
Read the 4 extracts & then tell me you now understand all about T.molitar & Z.morios... Somehow, I don`t think so:-

TheHerpVenue.com ...yet a 3rd option is SUPERWORMS. SUPERWORMS resemble king mealworms.Don`t actually confuse them with king mealworms because SUPERWORMS reach their large size, naturally.
X X Xgoto http://www.stormpages.com/herpvenue/panchamvenue.html & scroll down to "feeding" where they state that morios are fed STEROIDS to attain their size.

w.sialis.org/raisingmealworms.htm ...do not buy giant mealworms as they have been treated with an insect growth hormone to discourage them from morphing into beetles, so they will grow larger.

Robynsmealwormpage ... & giant mealworms can be stored in the fridge to prevent pupation. NO. DEFINATELY NOT. They won`t pupate... but if you put morios in the fridge... THEY WILL DIE.

& finally, PremiumCricketsLiveWorms ... GIANT MEALWORMS (TENEBRIO MOLKITOR), MEDIUM MEALWORMS (TENEBRIO MOLITOR).

ALL above statements are wrong & misleading. There were many more I found.

Al these sites can be reached by typing "giant mealworms" into the msn browser. Funnily enough, if you type in Zoophoba morio, you get nothing. I read about 14 pages of 13,000+ & found MANY conflicting & basically, wrong information. I`d like to know what you reckon when you`ve had the chance to read em RICK cos if you`d read them 1st, you would never have believed a word I told you. Regards... Dave
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Dave Messer @ Insectsunlimited.

It may be the early bird that gets the worm but it`s the 2nd mouse that gets the cheese.

[Insectsunlimited]

Just back-tracked over previous posts & realised that my last offering was addressed to Scot... firstly, sorry Scott (with 2 t`s) & secondly, the whole lot should be directed at Rick & not Scott. As I do so much online, I rush & sometimes make a few mistakes. "To err, is" ... not human if you are in a position to be "supposedly" giving people reliable advice & earning credibility. Regards... Dave.
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Dave Messer @ Insectsunlimited.

It may be the early bird that gets the worm but it`s the 2nd mouse that gets the cheese.

[Scott W]

[Scott W]

[Rickeezee]

Yes I have read many care guides on giant mealies and superworms and morios etc, read all of the steroid and sterile thing and so forth hence my seeking clarification on the actual worms referred to as many suppliers give various names to the same thing which can lead to confusion. Thanks Dave.


Cheers Scott I thought it was the morios that you were referring to.

I have found many sites offering variations on a theme regarding morio care and culture, did find a few sites that gave correct information regarding isolation for pupating e.g. place in film canisters, etc.
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www.rickslivefood.co.uk

[Insectsunlimited]

The BIG problem here is that there is a distinct difference between breeders & retailers. Firstly, the breeder has, in most cases, been breeding for years & either learnt from experience... or research & selected deduction whereas a typical dealer/retailers typical conversation COULD go along the lines of "Oh what`s that then, what profit is there in them & what do they eat" IN THAT ORDER & simply don`t know of their behaviour, habits or needs... or care.
I started supplying stick insects to a pet shop & explained all their needs, food, substrate, temps etc. & I got a phone call a fortnight later saying that all my insects were crap & they were dropping like flies. I visited the pet shop to find that they were being kept in a 12" x 12" x 8" tank at 90d F + & had a load of grass cuttings for food.
This is AFTER I`d spent a morning explaining that they needed to be kept at 60d F, needed a large cage with a through flow of air & mesh sides & would only eat bramble or Eucalyptus. It was a recipe for disaster.

Now, a lot of dealers buy on the net & if it`s a species they`ve never sold before, they trawl the first site for keeping instructions, whether true or pure fiction... & take it as gospel, passing the "information" on to unsuspecting customers who wonder why the inverts they have just paid over-the-top prices for are dead within the week. 9 times out of 10, they then have the audacity to blame it on poor stock from the breeder. A breeder has a "rough" idea for requirements of new species he takes on & would realise STRAIGHT AWAY that stick insects would quickly perish if fed grass cuttings & kept at over 90d F. I personally don`t believe a word I hear from a dealer but rely on my own research & deductions.

A lot of "dealers" would have you believe they have massive premises, purpose built for the distribution of inverts where in reality, they are working out of a back room with a box sent from Indonesia labelled 600 asst insects & not knowing WHAT it contains. I am not a cynic, these are actual experiences that I have met with over the years.

I am sure there are a lot of dealers, with established businesses out there doing their level best to provide customers with good service & reliable information & would bear me out that they too are brassed off with the "new boys" who think they can make "a quick few quid" selling a product they know nothing about. I`ve studied wildlife in general & inverts, in particular, for way over 30 years & still know very little of the pure diversity & peculiarities of most of it. I still learn something new EVERY day & will always bow to superior knowledge & pass on the valuable RELIABLE information. If I know, I`ll make my point with confidence & if I`m not sure I`ll say I don`t know & research it until I`m satisfied I have found a reliable answer.

After you`ve read this, I think most will agree that I`ve mirrored situations that most of you will have experienced in the past. All we can do is keep in touch ... & spread the true word.
If the older members can remember, a couple of years ago, I lead a debate on this site about "nick-names", common names, national names, Latin names... & Flemish (on the continent) for roaches & concluded that they weren`t 5 different species but one that was known differently in different countries. It went on for ages but the majority were in agreement in the end. Keep the debates going, we will all become the wiser for it. Regards... Dave.
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Dave Messer @ Insectsunlimited.

It may be the early bird that gets the worm but it`s the 2nd mouse that gets the cheese.

[Rickeezee]

I cant really make any comments on dealers suppliers etc. My main aim is just to improve my knowledge so i can get the care and culture of said Morios correct.

My need for clarification was due to the various names the same thing gets called.

I do however find your posts interesting and informative Dave. Nice to see that you have obviously dedicated a lot of time in experiential research.

Must admit most of my learning concerning livefoods has been via trial and error and asking questions on this forum. Nice to see that the many contributors on this forum are keen to share their experiences and knowledge.

If I dont know something I never feel afraid to ask on this forum, as the forums culture is one of support and understanding which makes a refreshing change compared to some other forums.

For me the raising of livefood is very satisfying and I get as much enjoyment from this activity as I do from my herps. To see your livefood thriving due to correct care is a great feeling. So much so that I have recently built a dedicated livefood room that I spend a lot of time in.

I keep a couple of species of roaches that I dont even use for livefood but just keep for fun. I think roaches could easily end up being a hobby all in their own right. Fascinating creatures! I have seen some beautiful roaches on various websites but sadly the availability of species in the UK is limited.
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www.rickslivefood.co.uk

[Insectsunlimited]

Hi Rick, I don`t have ANY herps & primarily was a keeper & small breeder of worms, roaches & stick insects ( & later scorps). I only turned it into a business 3 years ago when I was mugged severely & it curbed my usual profession of night trunking 44 ton artics as a result of the collosal dose of p/killers that I take. I found it difficult nee, impossible to live on incapacity benefit & expanded into breeding & selling for a bit of "pin money" Shhhsh, not a word. It`s a registered business now & better than benefits although it`s no replacement for the money I got driving. I sit watching tv sometimes with a couple of hissers in my hand & spend hours in the insect room at night under infra red light, just watching the little marvels going about their business.
It`s a whole new world... & I`m enjoying it. Shame that I lost a job & a grand a week to get right into their world. Regards... Dave.
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Dave Messer @ Insectsunlimited.

It may be the early bird that gets the worm but it`s the 2nd mouse that gets the cheese.

[Rickeezee]

Life can work in mysterious ways Dave. Sorry to hear about your misfortunes but you have turned a negative into a positive and as no doubt you know money is not everything in life, admittedly we all still have to pay the bills though. Sometimes such experiences make us reevaluate what life is about and we reorganize and re-prioritise what is important to us or even discover what is truly important.
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www.rickslivefood.co.uk

[Insectsunlimited]

P.S. I was partially responsible for establishing B. dubia in this country from stock I sourced in Germany & got one of my customers to bring some back from the Hamm show 2 years ago.
I am always looking for new & interesting breeds to add to my collection & breed from but it is extremely difficult to find many dealers with actual stock of what they advertise... & there`s no guarantee you get a true breed of what you ordered. I`m still after true black-winged cranifer, true discoidales & true giganteus (I should have true giganteus coming from Longleat, this summer), also porceline roach. I`ll get em eventually & will sell once the colonies are at a good strength. I`ve bought all the Blaberus sp. & they all grew up to be the same hybrid that you`ve got. That`s when I took it on board to put people right & breed from pure stock. If you`re using them as feeders, it doesn`t really matter but it`s important to me & educating people to produce/obtain pure stock will make the whole aquisition process more reliable & you get what you want. Regards... Dave.
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Dave Messer @ Insectsunlimited.

It may be the early bird that gets the worm but it`s the 2nd mouse that gets the cheese.