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Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred
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Rickeezee
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Joined: 18 Nov 2005
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Location: Kent
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 Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| johne.ev wrote: | Hi John.
could be a sign of old age, 6 yrs is a good age for a yemen. just like to agree with Rick, my male nosey b is exactly the same, feeds every 2/3 days & soon gets bored if the same bugs are offered (never refuses a spider though) also noticed that he very rarely fully extends his tongue to feed. usually he waits until the locust or crickets crawl near him. could this be a captive induced behaviour, you know, like its not going anywhere so i dont need to rush type thing.i know its not a problem with his tongue, because if his favourite bugs are offered (wax worms or giant meal worms) just out of range he will fully shoot his tongue out to try to reach them. good luck hope he starts feeding again. |
Good point about the tongue issue; I am aware that there can be muscular problems that affect the tongues reach, sometimes out of the blue, sometimes genetic, sometimes due to an infection and so forth. I also favour the possibility that it is indeed a captive lazy behaviour that may become habit. Both my mellors were sods for this (the female still is)! According to the previous mellor owner they had never done this before, so was a change in environment the cause or was the info from the previous owner inaccurate, hard to say 100%. Now my female mellor Mildred, could if her tongue does work properly, easily fire it into the bucket of food and feed more rapidly, but no, she slowly clambers into the bucket and forages around for ages! So this also makes me question if the tongue thing is laziness or not? Confusing isn't it?
An interesting topic though. They do slow down as they get older and eat less. Also begs the question if they don't have to shoot out their tongue to feed then why should they? less effort results in more energy conservation and less food required anyway 
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scottishdragon
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
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Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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It could also be a competitive thing if we look at it this way. The babies I have kept in groups go wild when I feed and shoot out their tongues to full length as they need to compete with their siblings for the insects on offer. Once they grow we seperate them in captivity and as you say there is no point in expending excess energy as there is no competition for the food on offer and yes it is not going anywhere as you put it. I have also noticed that some of the babies curl up and sleep on the base of the viv. Are we as keepers changing their natural behaviour? Could this be a learned behaviour as there are no predators in the viv?
I do know that my male beardie "Tango" definitely learned that I fed him from my hand and would never bother chasing food as he knew I would bring it over to him where he sat basking and he could just take it from my hand. I have spent months of restraint to teach him to go and look for his food as I am off on holiday in a few weeks and can not expect my brother who will be coming in daily to feed and water the animals, to stand and hand feed the spoiled boy.
Maybe we love our pets so much and want to interact with them so much that we are altering their natural behaviours. And YES I also hand feed my Yemens at least 80% of the time so maybe I am to some extent the cause of the problem.
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3 bearded dragons.
3 leoaprd geckos.
1 crested gecko.
1 pictus gecko.
2 veiled chameleons.
1 blue tongue skink
1 red tail boa. |
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Rickeezee
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Very good points John especially about food competition, yes food for thought
I would say for sure that we do inadvertently alter to a lesser or greater degree the animals behaviours simply by the act of keeping it in captivity, the hand feeding issue being a prime and clear example.
Going back to the food competition theory; I would support this as my singly kept chams don't rush for food, but I also keep a group of 1.3, they get on well etc, but when feeding time arrives they all go for it big time, tongues flicking everywhere, no dominance from any one of them or any fighting just a food frenzy! I am sure that this is food competition in action, in fact I am 100% positive it is.
The Ivan Pavlov experiments with dogs (1903) and conditioned responses, control stimuli and triggers etc , demonstrates how easy it can be to alter and condition an animals behaviour in captivity, granted some species would be harder to condition than others.
I am sure that many wildlife sanctuaries would agree with this; hence when they deal with rescues that need to be returned to the wild they are very carefull not to allow the animal to become dependant upon them, therefore losing their ability to fend for themselves in the wild.
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Xenopus
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Joined: 02 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| It's definitely laziness where mine is concerned - I started off feeding him by hand as the locusts he didn't eat were eating the plants, and the crickets driving me crazy. Now sometimes he won't eat unless it is offered by hand. He might take a single cricket from the bowl if he's really hungry but then nothing more. If I then pick them out by hand he might eat three more! I agree it is a problem if someone else looks after him - I leave crickets in a tub for him but he doesn't seem to touch them. But then, if he was starving, he probably would. Funny things. |
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Rickeezee
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Just goes to show what wonderful characters they truly are!
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Xenopus
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I know, I'm certain they do have individual 'personalities' much as I try not to attribute such things to lizards. |
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Rickeezee
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Xenopus wrote: | | I know, I'm certain they do have individual 'personalities' much as I try not to attribute such things to lizards. |
Your right, it's not good to attach human emotions to animals, but I do beleive that chameleons do have individual personalities in terms of levels of friendliness and likes and dislikes and so forth.
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Xenopus
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree. Now do you think they also have the capability to recognise in some way certain people? I say this because Ninja will take food from me happily (most of the time!) and from my partner, but is very reticent if anyone else tries. I'm not sure whether it is a real, or only perceived, effect but if it is real, what's he picking up on? And will he 'recognise' my partner as one of the people he is happy with in a couple of weeks when he returns from 3 months away? |
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Rickeezee
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Xenopus wrote: | | I agree. Now do you think they also have the capability to recognise in some way certain people? I say this because Ninja will take food from me happily (most of the time!) and from my partner, but is very reticent if anyone else tries. I'm not sure whether it is a real, or only perceived, effect but if it is real, what's he picking up on? And will he 'recognise' my partner as one of the people he is happy with in a couple of weeks when he returns from 3 months away? |
I am sure they do recognise people from visual cues as we ourselves do. My Picasso Panther Franz F will happily climb onto me but can be reticent with certain other people. I have heard, not experienced this, that when an owner changes their appearance say for example new glasses or a dramatic hair cut that their cham can react adversely to this, even the wearing of certain colours has reportedly affected some chams. I would even say that on a deeper level certain cues of non verbal communication are picked up upon; such as how we move, our facial expressions and so forth. I doubt any of this could ever be proven though, interesting subject though.
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Rickeezee
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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I forgot to add; a captive parrot is an excellent example of how an animal can display likes and dislikes and they certainly only take to some people and not others! Wilfie; Peter Parrots Parrot a 19 year old African Grey, is a fine example of this even to the point of deliberately winding up those he does not like!
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