Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

LeeWarren · Key Member Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Posts: 210

Im 100% sure he is an ambanja. There is so many colour varieties within each locale. Must admit the Sambava and Ankaramy usually turn out to be like there parents, but the rest can turn out very confusing.

These two are from the same clutch and their father was green.

LeeWarren · Key Member Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Posts: 210

The two above are nosy be.

Dracowoman2 · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:11 am Post subject:

The 2 above are adorable, they can be as nosy as they like Laughing

Seriously though, they are very attractive Very Happy

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Chris Anderson · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:36 am Post subject:

Hate to say it but your male doesn't look like a pure Ambanja. Definitely a hybrid, most likely between an Ambanja and a Nosy Be. More then likely, your female either wasn't pure or was mislabeled on import.

Chris
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unbreakable · Key Member Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 212

that's my thoughts exactly, i don't breed panthers as of yet but it must be so hard to identify what locale the females are and i should imagine a lot of people have been ill informed.

LeeWarren · Key Member Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Posts: 210

Ambanja females are one of the easiest locales to identify. They have bands running down their sides unlike Nosy be.

Here is some pics of the parents and the Ambanja's brother.
Notice the bands running down the females sides with almost the same patterns as the males. Apart from sambava's ambanja females are very easy to identify.

Everyone is entitled to make there own conclusions and this is one of the main reasons why I posted the pic. Just to show the different varieties of colours that can come out of each locale.

For me there is no question these are ambanja.

I will try and dig out a pic of the father of the nosy be's above, he is green and his offspring turn out nothing like him.

Chris Anderson · Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:53 am Post subject:

Lee,

You're welcome to your opinion but out of all the photos I've seen that were taken in Ambanja, the imports I've seen from Ambanja and the pardalis I saw myself while I was in Ambanja, I would say with absolute certainty that he is not pure Ambanja.

Also your methods of differentiating female panthers is not reliable at all as Ambanjas are hardly the only females that show those bands.

Finally, the animal in the photo "shop etc 002" is also a hybrid locale. Yes, locales can show a certain degree of variation but certain animals can easily be noted to be hybrids and in both these cases, I have 100% confidence saying they are.

I'm not saying they aren't colorful animals, just that they are not pure locales by any stretch of the imagination.

Chris
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Chris Anderson
cva3@cornell.edu
Co-Founder: ChameleonInfo.com- http://www.chameleoninfo.com/
Editor: Chameleons! Online E-Zine - www.chameleonnews.com
Founder: Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - www.chamaeleonidae.com

LeeWarren · Key Member Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Posts: 210

Chris

Interesting points and I admit other female locales have bands running down their body. But I got the impression you thought he had some nosy be in him. And I was just pointing out the difference between nosy be females and Ambanja's.

Looking at various other breeders websites ive noticed there is a huge variation with colour. From red bar Ambanja to blue bar Ambanja etc etc.

You said that pic (shop 002) was also a hybrid. This is the point i am trying to make with the colour variation within each locale, because (shop 002) is (shop 061's) brother. These are pure nosy be's.

Say for example you had a green nosy be that mated with a female nosy be who's father was a blue phase. What would the offspring come out like? Hybrids?

Your saying that the male in question is not Ambanja but I have shown you the pics of the parents! Do you not think these are Ambanja?

You are a lucky man to have visited madagascar do you have any pics of your trip and maybe some panther pics. Would love to see them.

harrison · Contributing Member Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 141

yeah! Some Ambanja pics would be great to see!

Chris Anderson · Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:14 am Post subject:

Here are a couple of my Ambanja photos:

Here is one of my Nosy Be photos:

Here are a couple of my Ambilobe photos:

There is variation within some locales but that variation is fairly easy to visually categorize and distinguish if you're familiar with the locales. Both Ambanja and Ambilobe come in red and blue bar varieties (as shown above) and Nosy Bes can be more green or more blue but the distribution and interactions between colors are what are important to distinguish them.

The random red speckling you see in your animal and its brother indicate influence from another locale then Ambanja (probably Nosy Be). As for "shop 002", I would say he has Ambilobe in his background. The bar coloration combination in his brother would indicate the same, IMO.

Chris

Edit by MJ: Chris I deleted the HUGE pictures please keep pictures to a maximum of 800x600 pixels
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Chris Anderson
cva3@cornell.edu
Co-Founder: ChameleonInfo.com- http://www.chameleoninfo.com/
Editor: Chameleons! Online E-Zine - www.chameleonnews.com
Founder: Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - www.chamaeleonidae.com