Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[Stuart]

Beautifull animals Sean....
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[Sean]

Ray I'll do you a favour and add you to my list for babies.


Cheers Stu

[Sam Sweet]

The techniques you're describing, Sean, are useful and widely practiced in one form or another, especially for larger species where that initial incompatibility can rapidly result in serious injuries. As you infer, the two methods you describe are linked, in that many animals, monitors included, regard their cage as sacrosanct territory. It is really a large challenge to put another monitor into a resident's cage without a bad outcome, and for this reason the 'neutral ground' approach has much to recommend it because there neither animal has the home advantage.

In this respect I do question the rationale for moving feces, substrate, etc. between cages as a means of introducing animals (although I have done it myself). The reason is that a pile of poop may be viewed as every bit as invasive and 'rude' as the appearance of the animal itself in a place where its own common sense would likely not have led it to go. Rather than being a neutral introduction it may be a negative conditioning experience, and thus at odds with what you hope to achieve. As an alternative, consider placing the cages where the animals can see one another at some nonthreatening distance, and if possible allow them to come out in turn, whereupon they will usually approach the other cage. This almost always causes a ruckus by the resident, and the aggrieved party will flip back and forth as you trade visits. In my view the place for introducing substrate or feces is in the neutral ground between cages, not in the cages themselves.

Given the olfactory prowess of monitors, it is highly unlikely that any animal in a house is unaware of the existence of any other (and this includes monitor predators, such as pythons). They can detect one another from hundreds of meters away in the field, so it should not be too hard for them to figure out what else is in a room or a house.

[arborgoanna]

Thank you for posting that information Sean; interesting spin on things, and I'm sure many people will find it interesting to read and register.

In regards to your reasoning for not sharing your information with others- for fear of other peoples' failure coming back at you, I am not sure I understand your rationale.

There is a profound difference between instructing somebody on how to do something, and sharing your own observations and experiences. I think that many of us here are beyond the 'caresheet' ('this is how you do it') mentality, and prefer to read about other peoples' experiences and observations, and apply/experiment with what makes sense to, or is of interest to us.

Isn't this what message boards and fora like this one are for- the sharing of each others' personal experiences, rather than instructing people on how to do things? If everybody chose not to share their own experiences and observations for fear that somebody would use it and possibly fail, then who on earth would actually post here, and how would fora like this one remain to exist (I guess besides advertising animals for future sale)?

This is how we as humans learn- building onto existing experiences/observations/information gathered by others. If nobody ever shared information with others, we wouldn't know a damn thing about varanid husbandry (or the world around us, for that matter).

What good would keeping this information to yourself be?

What bothers me is why it was so difficult for you to post this information the first time around when you were asked about it. Instead you refused to share this information because it was a "trade secret". How is this in any way constructive to this forum, or the monitor hobby as a whole?

[Sean]

Bob,

When I used the term "trade secret" I think you took it abit too literally from my point of view it was more "tongue in cheek" so come on lighten up and stop being too serious.

As regards to sharing information not everyone who frequents these forums are hobbyists some people lively hoods are at stake and to them it is more of a business and when you get involved at this side your not going to give away such winning recipes, it would be stupid for a business man to give details of is operations in such a competitive world in any industry.

The above reason I am not saying that applies to me but I am just looking at it from other angles. Like I stated I do not like to give advise as I am learning all the time as well and yes I don't mind sharing some information.

Sam,

Yes I am sure some of us have our own interpretation of the method I have practiced and it is good to know you have done similar things and agree with what you are saying. I have tried the visual barriers when cage mates can see each other across the room but if you introduce one to the other in more cases it does not work, like you stated it is best to have a neutral ground.