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mcfluffin
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 943
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 Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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kinyonga
Contributing Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Rickeezee...You asked to hear how others raise babies...so here goes....
I haven't used exo-terras for my chameleon babies....but something similar...as well as aquariums at times.
I don't know what a faunarium is but I have also kept babies in "critter keepers" which also come with plastic (sort of mesh) lids....so they sound similar to what you are talking about. (I'm not from Britain...but my grandmother was from Ramsgate. Smile.)
Like you..."I tend to vary baby raising methods to see what has the best results". Different things work better for different species sometimes. This applies to incubation too.
You said..."Thus far the things that I have found to be of most import are:
Good hydration: mist up to x6 per day
Regular supply of suitable well gutloaded food
Do not over heat the baby chams
Hygiene: clean them out every other day
Correct supplementation routine"....agreed! What supplementation routine do you use?
Like you I have found that some babies are more dominant and need to be separated out after a month...or even sooner sometimes.
The rest of what you said from this point on in your post, I also agree with! Sounds like we are on the same path!
Can you talk a little about how you incubate the eggs too please?
Also, what species of chameleons have you hatched? Other reptiles? |
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Rickeezee
Site Moderator
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 9249
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| kinyonga wrote: | Rickeezee...You asked to hear how others raise babies...so here goes....
I haven't used exo-terras for my chameleon babies....but something similar...as well as aquariums at times.
I don't know what a faunarium is but I have also kept babies in "critter keepers" which also come with plastic (sort of mesh) lids....so they sound similar to what you are talking about. (I'm not from Britain...but my grandmother was from Ramsgate. Smile.)
Like you..."I tend to vary baby raising methods to see what has the best results". Different things work better for different species sometimes. This applies to incubation too.
You said..."Thus far the things that I have found to be of most import are:
Good hydration: mist up to x6 per day
Regular supply of suitable well gutloaded food
Do not over heat the baby chams
Hygiene: clean them out every other day
Correct supplementation routine"....agreed! What supplementation routine do you use?
Like you I have found that some babies are more dominant and need to be separated out after a month...or even sooner sometimes.
The rest of what you said from this point on in your post, I also agree with! Sounds like we are on the same path!
Can you talk a little about how you incubate the eggs too please?
Also, what species of chameleons have you hatched? Other reptiles? |
Sorry for delayed response saw your reply and thought this will take more than 5 minutes to answer so left it till I had more than 5 minutes spare 
Yes the critter keepers are very similar to the faunariums same principle.
Your Grandmother was from Ramsgate, I used to live near to there and now only live 20 minutes from Ramsgate.
Supplementation routine: well it varies depending upon age, if female higher calcium when in season and leading up to receptivity and after egg laying, older chams less, growing chams more, but basically I use calypso pure calcium powder dusted in the usual manner on livefood, for multivitamins / minerals I use in alternation Repton and Nutrabol, I tend not to overdo the multi vits and minerals due to associated possible long term adverse contraindications. Gutloading of livefood is also something I concentrate on and also keeping the livefood at the correct tempretures so they can fully assimilate their food otherwise you may as well feed cardboard. If not kept at the correct temps the insects food is not allways digested fully. For some of my African species I tend not to use as much supplementation. But again concentrate more on good gutloading practise. Also the correct use of UV tubes and correct basking temps for the chameleons to help assimilation of calcium etc. Its multi faceted.
What routine do you follow for supplementation?
As for incubation generally for panthers I incubate at between 74f-76f with good results. Carpet chameleon eggs cooking as we speak I am following the diapause method for these as this is what they seem to require, although the same can be said for Panther eggs. Yemen eggs I just cook at 78f.
I have incubated, with success, Melleri eggs as follows in a homemade polly box incubator; incubated the eggs in a somewhat unconventional manner, leaving the vermiculite only slightly moist and no cover over the egg laying tubs; these were left in the incubator supported by bamboo canes pushed through the polly box sides, about two thirds of the way up. I checked the eggs weekly and only added a few drops of water to the vermiculite every two to three weeks, to maintain a low humidity. There was no particular logic to my method of incubation, it just seemed the right thing to do. The only thing I can think of that influenced this was that a friend of mine had kept Melleri a few years ago, had a clutch of eggs that went full term, sprayed them copiously to enable hatching and then at the last moment they all failed. Perhaps the fear of over-doing it made me hold back. 75 hatched out of a clutch of 92, 6 of which were duff when laid. Melleri eggs can take anywhere from 3-11 months to hatch mine hatched out in 3.5 months. Must admit I did not think they would hatch at all after hearing so much about how hard they are to breed etc.
Have bred various chameleon species, various herps and amphibians, insects etc.
With the incubation of the chameleon eggs I have tried various humidity levels and tried covered and uncovered egg tubs, have also tried various styles of incubator and various spacing of eggs to see if this affects any chemical signalling process as regards simultaneous hatching. Its all a learning curve and very enjoyable, can never get bored with seeing new arrivals.
What incubation methods do you use?
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kinyonga
Contributing Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Now its my turn to say sorry for the delay. I will post as soon as I can....my posts won't go through for some reason. |
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kinyonga
Contributing Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| I tried to post my long reply....no luck. |
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kinyonga
Contributing Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Well..that one went through....so I'll try to reply now!
You said.."Sorry for delayed response saw your reply and thought this will take more than 5 minutes to answer so left it till I had more than 5 minutes spare Laughing"...I understand not having any spare time!
You said.."Your Grandmother was from Ramsgate, I used to live near to there and now only live 20 minutes from Ramsgate"....its a small world! An aunt lived there too....Dumpton Park Drive. I still have relatives in Britain...but not around there any more.
You said..."for multivitamins / minerals I use in alternation Repton and Nutrabol, I tend not to overdo the multi vits and minerals due to associated possible long term adverse contraindications"...what contraindications? I use Herptivite for vitamins. Its readily available and I don't like to change any of the supplements once I have attained a balance with them because I don't like risking the changes that might occur in the chameleons' health when I make the changes.
Re: gutloading...I believe in taking proper care of my insects too...nutritious diet all the time (not just before being fed to the chameleons...like some people feel is okay) and appropriate temps. etc. too.
You said..."Also the correct use of UV tubes and correct basking temps for the chameleons to help assimilation of calcium etc. Its multi faceted."...agreed again.
You asked..."What routine do you follow for supplementation?" sounds pretty similar to what you do....differences depending on the age and cycle status. Generally, for adult veileds, for instance...I use a phosphorous-free calcium powder at most feedings...and twice a month a vitamin powder with a beta carotene source of vitamin A and since my chameleons rarely get direct sunlight, I dust lightly with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder twice a month too. If the chameleon were to show any signs of vitamin A deficiency, a powder with preformed vitamin A could be given.
You said..."As for incubation generally for panthers I incubate at between 74f-76f with good results. Carpet chameleon eggs cooking as we speak I am following the diapause method for these as this is what they seem to require, although the same can be said for Panther eggs. Yemen eggs I just cook at 78f"...veileds, I incubate at about 78F which has resulted in close to 100% hatch rate of fertile eggs. Panthers...about 75F.
Your Melleri egg incubation sounds very interesting! I have never incubated Meller's eggs.
You said..."The only thing I can think of that influenced this was that a friend of mine had kept Melleri a few years ago, had a clutch of eggs that went full term, sprayed them copiously to enable hatching and then at the last moment they all failed"...my first batch of panther eggs I overdid the moisture on and the eggs "exploded" a week or two before the hatch date with fully-formed babies in each egg. That's what happens when you take previous knowledge and try to apply it to other species. Live and (maybe) learn??
You said..."75 hatched out of a clutch of 92, 6 of which were duff when laid"...duff??..do you mean infertile??
You said..."Melleri eggs can take anywhere from 3-11 months to hatch mine hatched out in 3.5 months. Must admit I did not think they would hatch at all after hearing so much about how hard they are to breed etc."...I understand that completely!
You asked..."What incubation methods do you use?"...like you I have tried various methods of incubating chameleon eggs and other reptile eggs. If it worked, I used that method again....if not, then changes where made.
I have always used an unconventional "incubator" for eggs that needed to be warmer than room temperature. I have a heating pad (the kind we humans use) over which there is a wooden frame with screen in the middle. The frame is raised and the heating pad temperature adjusted until the desired temperature is reached in the egg containers. There is a "wall" around this so that the eggs can be kept in the dark. This has worked for C. chamaeleon, deremensis, veiled, panther (when needed), cone heads, water dragons, several species of gecko, turtle/tortoise eggs...just to name a few. I have hatched Bibrons gecko, Cormoro Island chameleons and others in situ.
Like you...I never get bored with seeing new arrivals either!
You said..."Have bred various chameleon species, various herps and amphibians, insects etc."...I have bred the species I listed above as well as others over the years. I have also had several lizards that produce live reproduce. Some I'm still working on...of course. |
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