Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[mark68]

There was a time not that long ago, that Uk reptile fairs/show stopped. Now it seems to me there might even be too many of them !! Quite a few members on this forum and many other reptile keepers in the UK visit Hamm and other European shows, often more than once a year. Have you ever heard of a German or Dutch man crossing over via a ferry to the UK for one of our shows, NO !!!! Would a German or Dutchman show in the UK, NO !!!

Maybe I have been spoilt by shows like the Hamm one, but if you have ever been to it and you go to one of the UK shows, its easy to get disappointed ! How many big breeders in the UK, will happily travel to shows in mainland Europe but don't "show" on their own doorstop (I don't blame them) ! Why because the shows are often so small ! I can remember maybe 10 years ago the IHS used to have a fair in the Autumn in Walsall. It was worth going to. Now they have 3 regional shows.


Maybe some of this societies should sort out a joint show ?


Am I on my own here ?

[Bri.]

I don't think you will ever get anything along the lines of Hamm here unfortunately, the antis and RSPCA will stamp on it. The Exeter Expo had the potential but never realised it.

[Jas]

Firstly i dont think Exeter had any potential as he didnt even have permission to hold the show, anyone can book a venue without permission, although it was profitable for him as he didnt refund anyones booking
It would be great to see a joint effort show on a large scale but i still dont think it would attract people from Germany or Holland as they have loads of shows themselves. I picked up a leaflet from the Rheda show in Germany last month and it listed this one organisations shows for the year in Germany and there was like 3 to 4 a month so i think when you add up all the other shows in Germany, Holland, Belgium, France etc etc it would have to be a super special one to get them over here. From the ones over here ive been to i would say Basildon and Barking are the best/busiest so i wonder if it would be worth while for say coach to the show to organise a coach from up north to these?
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[Bri.]

[mark68]

I am not that bothered about whether anybody from mainland Europe visits, though that would be nice. Its more that you know they would be very disapointed if they came now. I have slept on what I said yesterday and maybe its not so much the number of shows that is a problem. The problem maybe one of peoples faith in them. I think as each show grows it becomes more attractive to both vendors and buyers. You need that critical mass to get people to bother to travel to them half way across the country, or further !

Would it be any easier for the antis to "stamp" on a big event than a smaller one ? Either its legal or its not ?

Wouldn't it be great to have one large decent Autumn fair (when there should be the maximum no. of young reptiles needing rehoming !) in central England to attract people from all over the UK ?

[kingsnake]

The reason many Europeans don't come to our shows is that they are commercial breeders. The BRAS show is looking to expand next year, but every year we get the same comments about "boring show" or not much choice etc. Why should we even bother doing a show, giving up months of our time organising it when that's the sort of reaction.
To hire a bigger hall is going to be very expensive (over £1500). If we don't fill all (potentially 150) the tables, do we give up?!
Don't forget a reptile show is not a boot sale. There are "bargains" to be had, but at our show last year I saw a lot of people just chatting to each other and about how to keep and breed reptiles.
The large breeders in this country cannot attend UK shows because they are commercial - these in time will be banned altogether so the only shows allowed will be shows such as BRAS, ERAC, EHS, PRAS etc.

[mark68]

I take your points. How do you define a commercial breeder ?

In your last sentence you say (Kingsnake) that "these in time will be banned altogether". What will be banned ?

[Bri.]

I was talking to Steve over at Living Rainforest a while back about whether he would be attending any of the breeders shows, and he said he probably would not be allowed to now he has the shop. Not sure if this has changed, it was quite a while back.

[Jas]

I dont know why there arent more traders attending these shows, i know they cant sell livestock but people still need to get dry/electrical goods to go with the animals they have just bought, it would also be a way for them to promote there shop so people can put names to faces, same said for the various viv/rack manufacturers,dry good producers, livefood suppliers,etc, etc, its a good way to get your products seen by like minded people all in one day and at a bargain price of a table or two.
I think if more of these attended regularly this would entice more people to attend also.
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[kingsnake]

Commercial breeders are usually ones that breed and sell reptiles as a business and are probably VAT registered but that does depend on annual turnover. If its your sole source of income - then your a commercial breeder - I think - its open to interpretation.
UK shows that the government are looking to ban are those run by a commercial business, with commercial traders attending. At the moment I think they are allowed with a licence. If you look at European shows that could account for a lot of traders.
However, if the European traders wanted to come over here and were prevented by the new laws - would that then break the "free trade" laws within the EU?
The laws that are proposed are being put on thew back burner anyway -
to quote DEFRA:

"in the light of Defra’s budget allocations for the 2008/2009 financial year there may be need for re-prioritisation as to what Defra will be able to deliver in terms of secondary legislation under the Animal Welfare Act."