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tel123
I've settled in...
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 25
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 Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: live food |
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| is it illegal to feed live food to snakes |
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neep_neep
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
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Location: Sheffield/Peterborough
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:14 am Post subject: |
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I suppose the full answer depends on what country you're in 
In a solely 'yes or no' answer, yes it is legal in the UK.
However it is not encouraged and I believe is generally deemed to be used as a 'last alternative' - i.e. if the snake absolutely refuses to eat defrost.
If you feed live as a matter of course when your snake will happily eat defrost, I think in the UK at least, you're on slightly dodgy ground.
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Sophie
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Donski
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Apparently in the UK it is, unless under veterinary supervision ! I have been recently caught up in this so have done some research. It is highly unlikely that this "law" would stand up in court as Live food is the animals' "natural" food... to say it is illegal for a snake to eat live food is to say it is illegal for a cow to eat grass !! however, you could have to go through the rigmarole of defending that in court if the RSPCA brought a case against you !
In these uneasy times a Herpetoligical group that had real punch and funding would be worth joining so that we may protect our hobby. I think I read somewhere of such a group but have not had time to find them out.
I cant believe the arrogance of human beings to ban the feeding of an animals' natural feed as it does not fit in with the "modern" way of thinking.. whatever next !
Don't get me wrong I am all for feeding frozen thawed, more so because it is safer for the reptile but when in need it is imporatant we can feed live if necessary.. it's only nature after all !
Stupidly it is perfectly legal to feed a dead animal to a snake regardless of it's quiestionable housing, feeding, and killing. The last batch of rats I bought frozen had fountains of blood oozing from their noses.. a questionable death I think .. my snakes can do it much more efficiently and naturally !!! |
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mike h
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 778
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | my snakes can do it much more efficiently and naturally |
Depends where you buy your food, Specialist rodent breeders are obliged to terminate the rodents humanely.
On the couple of occasions I have observed live being fed to get hatch-lings started the squeal was not nice.
When I have observed mice put down with a swift blow with a heavy blunt instrument on the back of the neck, I have never heard them squeal!
Also the damage a rodent can do to a snake which does not feed is horrible and sometimes deadly, only my opinion but live other than when essential for the well being of the animal is a NO NO 
Another question or thought is why do people buy animals that dont feed easily on defrost food?
Unless you are very experienced and buying for a specific purpose why not wait till the perfect snake comes along?
If you get a quality animal from day one and it decides to fast here and there is don't matter  Even though it can be a pain, especially if you are trying to fatten a female up for breeding, some people resort to live to get them, or keep them going when they would rather fast.
My het albino royal python female I bought last year had not fed for 3 months when i bought her, and only started feeding after about a month after I bought her, BUT because she had fed every week without fail for the previous 18 months it was not a problem, when she was ready she started pounding defrost rats and produced some lovely albino royal python babies for me, all of which take after her in being eating machines.
So in my mind it is not a case of legal not legal but good or bad idea, I think bad idea 
Did I really write all that  As always open to being wrong and put right.
www.albinoroyalpythons.co.uk
mike h
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neep_neep
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 274
Location: Sheffield/Peterborough
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Donski wrote: |
I cant believe the arrogance of human beings to ban the feeding of an animals' natural feed as it does not fit in with the "modern" way of thinking.. whatever next ! |
Well, you only have to take a look at what the vast majority of the country feed their cats and dogs - tinned food and kibble. Not exactly natural - but does the job 
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Sophie
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Donski
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| We're not only talking about Royal Pythons here.. some species of snake are more specialised. I know for a fact zoos feed live food because they have to with their specialised collections, to make it so they are breaking the law is absurd when they are only doing what is natural for the snake. The death you describe is no less abhorrent than a snake kill. Death aint nice whatever. Just watch Big Cat Diaries ! it's nature. |
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mike h
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We're not only talking about Royal Pythons here |
I was but unless essential for the well being of the animal in question, live is in my opinion a NO NO for all snakes, just no point to it whatsoever
So whether it is legal or not to me is not the question, it is, is it necessary?
mike
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Donski
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:15 am Post subject: |
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Yes you are right it is a No No and fortunately 99% of the time is not necessary but on occasions a snake is programmed to kill and eat live food even to the point of dieing if live is not available to it. If these animals are in a private collection should it be illegal to feed them naturally?
Maybe videoing it and putting it on you tube should be illegal.. take a look at the dozens of live feeding vids from America .. ! hideous ! But I still think it's questionable that it should be illegal for an animal to eat it's natural food.
As for cats and dogs.. they have been domesticated for centuries to eat human's leftovers so kibble and tins is fine ! Wolves would have real problems on that diet !
As I say and repeat I do not feed my snakes live food, but I think it is wrong it should be illegal to do so when necessary. |
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Young_Gun
Captivebred Communist
Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1420
Location: Liverpool
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:17 am Post subject: |
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I can understand why breeders with massive collections feed live, if you had 800 snakes that strike fed, would you be able to spend the say 5 minutes average feeding 800 snakes?
I have fed live in the past for snakes that wouldn't eat anything else and I didnt feel any different about it as the mouse was dying to become food, whether it is gassed or shot or constricted doesn't really make much difference.
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neep_neep
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
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Location: Sheffield/Peterborough
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| Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:36 am Post subject: |
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I think the current law, although a bit impenetrable at times, has struck the right balance.
I.e. it is only legal to feed live if absolutely necessary. This I agree with.
| Donski wrote: | | to say it is illegal for a snake to eat live food is to say it is illegal for a cow to eat grass !! |
The main issue I think is that grass does not feel fear or pain - whereas a rat or a mouse does - which of course is the reason why this topic drums up so much controversy.
| Quote: | | As for cats and dogs.. they have been domesticated for centuries to eat human's leftovers so kibble and tins is fine ! Wolves would have real problems on that diet ! |
Yes, but snakes can also eat defrost perfectly fine - it is still a 'natural' food, just presented slightly differently.
| Donski wrote: | | In these uneasy times a Herpetoligical group that had real punch and funding would be worth joining so that we may protect our hobby. I think I read somewhere of such a group but have not had time to find them out. |
In my humble opinion, I don't think that the hobby needs protecting from these laws.
If it was simply openly legal to feed your snake live mice and rats whenever you felt like it, I believe it would make far more people anti-reptile keeping than they currently are. They would automatically see snake-keepers as evil small-furry-killing people who just do it for morbid kicks. The fact that there are laws to dissuade irresponsible thrill-seekers is definitely a good thing in my books
Because otherwise it would lead to what you so accurately described - | Quote: | | take a look at the dozens of live feeding vids from America .. ! hideous ! |
If there were fewer laws surrounding live-feeding, we'd likely end up with far more of those originating from the UK. 
| Donski wrote: | | when in need it is imporatant we can feed live if necessary.. it's only nature after all ! |
| Quote: | | I think it is wrong it should be illegal to do so when necessary. |
Agreed but I thought that the law *does* allow you to feed live when necessary? In which case, i'm confused, why do people seem to be arguing with each other when we agree on that and the law agrees with us?
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Sophie
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