Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[leigh0101]

HI,

I'm curious as to what peoples experiences are with keeping Veiled Chameleons together.

I tried it and it ended badly.

The best method I found was having a very large vivarium with a mesh screen (1" plastic fence type stuff) with greenery attached so they could catch a glance of each other but couldn't get to each other unless i removed the screen.

My vet advised this was a really good solution to the problem and it worked.

I have seen posts of people who have had chams living happily together with no problems so I'm wondering if its just a matter of personalities or luck or something else?

Replies welcome!

Also, if anyone knows if it is possible to keep a lone female without her becoming egg-bound I'd be interested to hear how?
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OF ALL THE THINGS I'VE LOST, ITS MY MARBLES I MISS THE MOST.

[BELIAL]

[kinyonga]

Eggbinding is usually the result of poor husbandry (including overfeeding) or caused by failure to provide a suitable egglaying site for the chameleon. There are some physical reasons that can lead to it too...fused eggs. reproductive system deformities, eggs that are misshaped. etc.

Diet and temperature plays a part in whether they lay any eggs at all or not and IMHO plays a part in their longevity.

[Rickeezee]

[leigh0101]

It shouldn't worry you that I posted that. Your reply was very very helpful. Thank you.

I get the feeling you have total disdain for people who don't know everything but if your in here sharing knowledge like that your doing a good thing. There is no need to worry.

I've never had a lone female so can only go on what I'm told or what I read. Have you actually seen a female who has not mated lay eggs? Are you 100% sure this is true? I hope so!

All the advice i have received from other people is that lone females will become egg-bound if they don't mate... so what your saying is that as long as they have the opportunity to lay their eggs when ready they will?

As long as they are supplied with the means to dig a hole and lay their eggs they will even if they have not mated?

Allot of people have posted on this and other sites saying they have had eggs removed by vets and that their females died from being egg-bound... knowing all they need is a bucket of damp sand could have saved allot of peoples beloved pets from surgery or death.
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OF ALL THE THINGS I'VE LOST, ITS MY MARBLES I MISS THE MOST.

[leigh0101]

I'm learning allot here and i thank you for your help.

I'm not having a go at anyone... all this knowledge you have is really helpful for novices like me and i really appreciate it.

I have just successfully bred my chameleons and I'm now selling them to people but I can only pass on the knowledge i have and recommend books, care-sheets and sites like this to people.

I have talked more people out of owning a chameleon than I have sold to because they thought they could keep them in a small viv, didn't have the time they require to look after them properly or just didn't understand this is more difficult and complex than keeping a Leo for example. This is more than i was offered when I bought mine from a pet shop who just wanted to make a sale.

The fact you can keep a lone female as long as you know when she is gravid and supply her with the opportunity to lay eggs is something i have never heard. I suppose its common sense really but nobody else ever said that was possible and lots of care-sheets were very very firm in their claims that is was impossible to keep a lone female.

I spoke to someone at Chester Zoo yesterday who said a lone female Dragon, I can't remember the species, laid eggs having never even seen a male and half of them hatched... there is some very complicated genetics involved here but i saw the young dragons who were the result.

I mentioned that it would be cool if veiled chameleons would lay their eggs having never seen a male and now it seems they will... I would really like a definite "yes this is true" though before i sell a lone female to someone with that advice.

I'd hate to give that advice and then get a call in 12 months saying I was wrong.
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OF ALL THE THINGS I'VE LOST, ITS MY MARBLES I MISS THE MOST.

[aidan]

i don't think that's possible another keeper may have put a male in and then take him out. with out the other keeper knowing
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2.4. beardies
1.1 fire n uce beardies
1.1.0 yemen chameleons
0.0.1 corns
0.0.2 crested geckos

[crouchy]

Just because a female lays eggs doesnt mean the will be fertile
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http://www.freewebs.com/crouchys/
CB Rhampholeon Brevicaudatus (Pygmy Chams) Hatching now

[BELIAL]

Some species can fertilise their own eggs..is called parthogenisis (sp?) the eggs are internally fertilised by the female and no males are needed..eventually this can lead to an all female society..has been documented in various species of geckos and even monitors (what with the recent 'ish' komodo birth)

There is no disdain at all...is good when people learn things, that is what forums like this are for. With chams you never stop learning even when you have been keeping them a while they can still suprise you.

[kinyonga]

Rickeezee said..."Hi very interested in the diet and temperature bit I know it has come up before, in terms of cycling the cham so she does not produce eggs, would be great if you would expand upon this please with your experiences. I find when I keep females in the lower vivs where the temps are lower their egg cycle is far less frequent and they are receptive far less, I also adjust their diet accordingly. When I want them to breed I place the female in a warmer viv and increase food intake"....that is basically what I do....feed the female less and keep her slightly cooler until I want to breed her. When I do mate them, the clutches are usually around the 2 dozen mark. Once they are mated (I wait a few days first) I feed them well. My females are by no means thin. I have a female now that is over 6 years old and has never laid an egg. I have another one that is over 4. The four-year olds mother was over 3 when I bred her (so 4ish when her daughter hatched)...and when she died she was over 7....the clutch that the 4 year old came from had 100% hatch rate and a good survival rate too. I have tried the same idea with pardalis, but I can't get them to stop producing eggs...I seem to be able to control the clutch size somewhat though.

leigh0101 said..."I've never had a lone female so can only go on what I'm told or what I read. Have you actually seen a female who has not mated lay eggs?"...yes, I have.

You said..."All the advice i have received from other people is that lone females will become egg-bound if they don't mate"...this came from a paper that was later proved to be wrong. It made me wonder if I should mate my first female when she was very young...but I decided not to believe it and she lived for a long time and produced. I soon decided that I wouldn't mate any female until she was done growing her own bones...and I still feel that way.

You asked..."as long as they have the opportunity to lay their eggs when ready they will?"...if they are not overfed and not obese and there are no husbandry issues (supplementation, UVB, etc.) and they don't happen to be one of the few who have a physical reason that they can't lay the eggs, they should lay them as long as they have a suitable place. Sorry I can't be more positive than that!

I put an egglaying container in with all my egglaying females once they are old enough to produce eggs....that way you don't have to watch for the sometimes subtle indications that they are wanting to lay eggs.