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Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred
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crocdoc
Key Member
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Sydney Australia - best address on Earth :)
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| gabb13 wrote: |
but don't worry- they'll probably die at age 20 of my poor husbandry and then you can finally crow. |
Maybe he meant 20 months?
crow:
Dead sav already. Oh my, who would have guessed? Certainly not all of the people that advised him about the dangers of allowing a monitor to free roam 24/7/365
There's a bit of a pattern here:
People kindly advised him of the sex of his monitor (male) but he refused to believe them and posted pages on his website full of expletives directed at those people, claiming they know nothing about sexing monitors. When he finally realised (and admitted) it was a male there was not the tiniest bit of embarrassment (or apology).
People kindly advised him that letting a monitor free roam 24/7/365 would shorten the lives of his savannah monitors, but he refused to believe them and posted with excitement that they'd made it to one year in his care. Now one of them is dead and the other 'mysteriously' lost all of its teeth in one hit a short while ago - not the greatest sign of robust health.
One really sad thing about all of this (and I do think it is really sad) is that he and his wife seemed to really care about these animals, but the guy's ego got in the way of taking advice from others about how to care for them properly. He was going to prove to the world that savannah monitors are endothermic and don't need basking lights. They don't need humidity, substrate or any of those other 'silly' things we insist on giving our monitors. I'll admit, even I am surprised at how quickly they are succumbing - I thought for sure they'd get two or three years at least out of the savs. Monitors are tough animals and other free roaming savs I've seen on assorted forums seemed to linger for a few years, while still dying well short of their potential lifespan. I hadn't taken into account the extreme obesity of these animals (as evidenced by the videos), and the resulting fatty liver disease.
Another really sad thing is that these monitors had to be removed from the wild only to die an early death so someone could try proving a point.
Finally, the saddest thing will be that no lesson will be learned from it. An excuse will be made (there'll be a post saying "the vet said it was congenital, so it's not our fault") and he'll carry on like before.
And yet he sees all of us as the 'baddies', first for criticising his putting a defensive baby sav into deep water to tire it out, then for trying to point out that his 'female' sav had hemipenes and finally for trying to correct his husbandry so he wouldn't have to go through the grief he's undoubtedly going through now. Can't wait to see how he twists the death of his sav to being all our fault, too. |
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patd
I'm new here...
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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I must admit that I have occasionally indulged in watching some self-professed expert's homemade 'instruction' video on YouTube. After all, what better way to waste a few moments than watch and listen to the antics of some half-witted know-it-all's preach their 'wisdom' on everything from ' how to treat venomous snake bites with what you have lying around the house ' to 'how to tame your monitor so you too can have toddlers feed it mouth to mouth'.
While I chuckled at the notion that some of these people actually believe their own lunacy, I've always held faith that it could never be taken seriously enough among the sane to be dangerous. Unfortunate enough for the unlucky animals that happen to fall victim to some of these misguided keepers but at least they seem well intentioned. If nothing else, I would always presume their ridiculous examples could actually help educate some on how NOT TO ...
With all the talk of impending legislation in my home province of BC though, a new reality check has hit home and I have begun to fear that some of these lunatics might actually be mistaken for typical representatives of the herp community. I mean, let's face it - news media loves to cover the absurd. God forbid I open the newspaper or turn on the local news one day and see 'dancingwithsavs' is heading the movement to protect the future of our hobby!! Let's all hope that day never comes. |
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crocdoc
Key Member
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Sydney Australia - best address on Earth :)
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| patd wrote: | | I would always presume their ridiculous examples could actually help educate some on how NOT TO ... |
If only this were true. If you click the links to the youtube channels of their biggest fans, you'll see that there's a whole group of people keeping their savs in appalling conditions that now think it's okay. Usually a bare glass tank with either no substrate at all, or a small bit of towel, screen top, often no basking light. One of them (who thankfully got rid of her monitor to accomodate a less-than-accomodating boyfriend) had hers in a wire cage designed for a chinchilla or a parrot. All of these savs are undermetabolised, hideously obese and headed in the direction of DWS's late sav. All in the name of making them 'tame' for their short lives.
Only if you have the stomach for it, check out the youtube channel of the kid that owned a monitor called Martha, which lingered for 6 years before it was put down. For its entire life 'Martha' alternated between free roaming in this kid's room (no basking lights or anything else that one might deem necessary for a monitor's health) and being confined to a completely bare glass tank no longer than the monitor. He documented its last few days before he had it put down and it's quite clear that it lacked teeth, as it was unable to hold onto a dead mouse. It was obese to the point that it couldnt walk on a tile floor and a video showing it a year earlier indicated that it was already toothless and barely able to walk then. If people kept dogs that way they'd be arrested for cruelty, but unfortunately most animal protection agencies concentrate on the warm and furries.
Yes, it would be terrifying if these were the spokespeople for reptile keepers but unfortunately it's highly likely, as it's people like these that are always the most vocal. Good luck, DWS lives in your province! |
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Mark F
I've settled in...
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:05 am Post subject: |
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Just watched the Martha videos, was it his intention to kill his pet slowly or was it some missed place duty to keep feeding it so many mice in it's last few days?.
mdf |
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crocdoc
Key Member
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Sydney Australia - best address on Earth :)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: |
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I felt ill watching those videos, knowing that monitor spent a lot of its time in that empty, small tank.
What's really disturbing is that you realise, when you read the comments to the videos, that the owner thought the monitor had lived a long time due to his exemplary husbandry. |
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patd
I'm new here...
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Crocdoc, I will take your word for it on the other videos.
I only have a thin slice of hope left for humanity - and I wanna hang on to it for a while. When I start becoming sympathetic to the legislation argument, it's all over for me!  |
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gabb13
I've settled in...
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: |
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lol. patd, if you only knew.
dave wants nothing more than for everyone to take his word on everything. don't you notice how assiduously he applies himself to poisoning the well with hint and innuendo? he's fanatical about it. don't ever show him to be wrong on something- he's really vindictive and shameless.
by the way- would you like to know Lilly's cause of death? it might make a difference. nah. you don't wanna know. you've got your own agenda that reality can't penetrate.
anyway- this is my regular visit just for a quick mock.
the world's coolest savs...
over 100,000 views of more than 30 videos of tame, affectionate, intelligent monitors...
the practical definition of TAME
the first book on reptile training
(https://www.createspace.com/3334402)
lots of new and interesting information and observations as well as measurements and data on savs - that you lot will never see...
so what did all this avail you?
yes, i set some new standards.
you don't have to like em. i've spent enough time making sure you stayed vocal about it til now. time is up. i don't need to do another thing but sit back and watch as nature takes its course.
hand feeding will become standard- it's not the most important thing- it's teh ONLY important thing.
tame monitors will become unexceptional.
anybody who has one that isn't will no longer be able to rationalise it as the nature of the lizard.
from the first moment out of the egg, a lizard is being trained, either by nature or by a deliberate thoughtful keeper.
dave's silly meme 'inadvertent traininng' is very well focussed on a real thing- the lack of owner consideration my posts highlighted by their extreme close attention to these things. it's not what i term inadvertent- it's what i've been calling thoughtless and telling you they were learning from it whether you were bright enough to be aware of it or not.
TAME. start a thread on any forum with that in the topic. you know what will happen.
TAME has been demonstrated and proven so many times now that any denial is purely for your interpersonal consumption- there's no other market for that fantasy.
After a very short experience with the characters on these forums i learned you wouldn't change. you're a cult and your gurus run off any heretics to the doctrine. i don't want you to change. i just want you to have as lastingly painful experience for your stupidity as possible.
patd- if monitors are banned in BC- it will be because of the myths of savageness and ferocity you all have thrived on- showing off photos of your war wounds to act like tall persons...lol
fortunately, Buzzy and Lilly are very well known in BC and very likely will be presented as the most convincing arguments in favor of not prohibiting the keeping of pets. get with the program, you slow canuck. |
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Sam Sweet
Contributing Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Oops, the nutcase is back. Keep in mind that popularity on youtube is rather often associated with tragic and humorous videos. When you say | Quote: | | i just want you to have as lastingly painful experience for your stupidity as possible. |
, it characterizes your delusional life rather well.
You're an international joke, dunceswithsavs. |
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crocdoc
Key Member
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Sydney Australia - best address on Earth :)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| gabb13 wrote: | | don't ever show him to be wrong on something |
This coming from the guy that argued incessantly that his male sav was a female after showing a photo of its fully everted hemipenis.
| gabb13 wrote: | | the world's coolest savs... |
Cool indeed. Can't bask when you're dead.
| gabb13 wrote: | | yes, i set some new standards. |
Fastest sav death in captivity. Gold star for you!
| gabb13 wrote: | | hand feeding will become standard- it's not the most important thing- it's teh ONLY important thing. |
PLEASE, come hand feed my lace monitors. That will stop you from continuing to type your meaningless crap.
| gabb13 wrote: | | fortunately, Buzzy and Lilly are very well known in BC and very likely will be presented as the most convincing arguments in favor of not prohibiting the keeping of pets. |
Lilly is the poster child of how not to keep a sav. Dead after 16 months.
For all of your talk about training and learning, you have not learned a thing. But, on the other hand, nothing is tamer than a dead sav and since TAME is so important to you... you go, girl. |
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crocdoc
Key Member
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 262
Location: Sydney Australia - best address on Earth :)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:26 am Post subject: |
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The difference between us is here in this statement: | gabb13 wrote: | | hand feeding will become standard- it's not the most important thing- it's teh ONLY important thing. |
To me, the health of my animals is THE most important thing.
You've had 2/3 of every monitor you've owned die after an incredibly short time under your care and your one remaining monitor had all of its teeth fall out. These aren't wake up calls, they're air-raid sirens blasting in your ears, telling you to sort out your husbandry issues first and worry about 'tame' later.
Wake up. |
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