Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[tafkadaz]

Just a quickie i have kept Leo's on a variety of substrates from fine bark chippings, sand and corn cob granules, and towels.
My favorite due to ease of crap cleaning is corn cob or sand.
I got a large bag of sand from a pet store it was marked as reptile sand, (not t Rex or anything), this is what is in my 10 Leo Viv's and i use a fair bit, BUT it don't half stink they are cleaned on a daily basis and i have good ventilation but it just smells, any ideas?
Is it maybe the type of sand some one could let me know where to buy nice sand in bulk minimum of 25kg at a time, or should i go back to corn cob.
I know there are many issues on impaction with sand etc but that is not my concern, hygiene, lack of smell and ease to clean. Thanks in advance for any info on this.

[herplover212]

Maybe it's just me, but I would think you would want to do all the research in the world you can and get your husbandry suitable first and foremost. I hate to sound mean or rude, but you were on here just weeks ago (maybe a month or so now) in need of urgent help due to improper husbandry. It is very hard for me, and I know fellow herpers who also do rescue work, to bite our tongues in cases like this.

Let me ask you this ... why are you SO opposed to a cleaner, healthier and easier to maintain alternative? The substrate debate has been beat to death, so let's not start that. Washed and sifted playsand would be thee only particle substrate even close to what I could call an option. The reason it smells is pretty self-explanatory ... as real and gross as it is, your leo is living in the equivalent of a feline litter box. No matter how often you clean it, no matter how much you want or wish and no matter how much any one argues .... there is no way as of today that urine and feces magically evaporates into thin air. Just because the particles visible to the human eye are removed does not mean the liquid substances go away. The sand, or any other particle substrate, harbors germs/bacteria/etc. Yes, even something like repticarpet or paper towel would harbor those too, if the caregiver did not clean them routinely. Personally, I use non-adhesive shelfliner for my dragons and leos. I use aspen for the corns, bed-a-beast for the cresties and cypress mulch for the royal. I am not against using those when they are properly used and pose minimal danger. I wash and sanatize all the shelfliners weekly (spot cleaning daily), I change all others bi-weekly. The cresties and snakes are not fed in their enclosures - well, the cresties are but I have metal dish holders for the baby food/CGD mix mounted to the tops of the tank so the do not eat or drink anywhere near the bottom. Leos are one of the herps that lick EVERYTHING .... which also poses another issue to worry about. All this added up makes a pretty safe bet for some trouble.

I just do not understand people sometimes. As an animal lover, the last thing that I would ever do would be to come to a forum for help only to return weeks later basically slapping everyone in the mouth that did try to help and end by asking for advice about issues that 1) people who are knowledgeable and able to help do not agree with 2) state in a post that there are x problems with what I am doing, yet state I am going to do it anyway and that is that and 3) lastly, want to put another animal through anything even remotely close to what just happened in the very recent past.

I apologize to anyone this offends, and so be it if it makes me look bad. No matter what, no one will ever win every single battle ... but at least for every one case that is lost, there are unknown amounts of animals that will benefit.

You did not come off with a bad attitude, or offend me, so I want to end with make that clear upfront and let you know that this was in no way a personal attack, though I can see how it may easily be viewed as one.

-Shanna
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*Yes, I am the chick in the pic!" ;)

[tafkadaz]

I must say you certainly have a lot to say and yes i do find the way you say it offensive.
The sick Leo i was asking about has not got impaction or parasites and has never been kept on sand. If you remember the posts we got him sick as my wife felt we could maybe offer him a chance.
So please dont insult my husbandry techniques, i have spent much time and money creating a good heated setup some of the info has come from here some from friends.
Personally i think i will stop using this forum due to the attitude of certain members i have read most of the posts in this forum and some of the repiles people have had are rude to say the least.
I am closing this wondering why you think your way and only your way is correct and the thousands of people all over the world using varied substrates are wrong. I know many many breeders who use sand chipping and corn cob so please do not say i am slapping people in the mouth and don't worry i will no longer use this forum.

[Kate]

I don't know you, nor the thread to which you refer about the sick leo - and so I guess I represent a fresh pair of eyes on this...

I do find your initial post a little odd though - this bit in particular -

I know there are many issues on impaction with sand etc but that is not my concern, hygiene, lack of smell and ease to clean.

Every owner I know would list health as their major concern, and everything else secondary, and so your attack on someone who tried to help you in this case I find bizarre!!

Yes, there are many owners who use sand and have had no problems with it - I'm not getting into this debate.

However, you've had problems with it and wish to find alternatives - I presume you want something that looks a little better than the usual newspaper - have you tried dried (oven baked) peat perhaps?

This would smell better than sand - which has no absorbing qualities, and would look better than your average newspaper!

I hope that your next post is not made as hastily as the last.

[tafkadaz]

I am sorry if i sound uncaring but this is a joke.
When i say " know there are many issues on impaction with sand etc but that is not my concern, hygiene, lack of smell and ease to clean", i am not saying i do not care about impaction via sand, i am stating the question is not impaction related. I was wondering if there was any reason why the sand may smell, was i using a certain brand, are others better than some.
Please don't bother to answer as this has just got out of hand and as for attacking people i am answering back stating my views, just like the first reply stated their view.
I didn't realise any 1 set of rules were correct and everything else is wrong, also the sick leo was rescued from a pet store and we have spent a lot with the vets to try to make him better. Just like the dog we own he was from a rescue centre and the Iguana we own was rescued.
I HAVE done a lot of research but some subjects such as substrate there is no right or wrong, unless 50 % of Leo owners are wrong.
So please all of you don't judge me and speak to me like i am not interested in my Leo's health.
If anyone feels like i have attacked them i am sorry.
As far as i am concerned the topic is closed.

[Kate]

All I was doing was pointing out how easily your post could be misconstrued - I also obviously know there are many ways to keep geckos as I suggested a different substrate medium.

I have also not attacked you. Why are you so angry?

[JohnC]

Sands do vary, you could try playsand from B and Q, cheap enough and fine grain.
Your iguana viv looks amazing, well done there.
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John
Oldest member, been keeping reptiles for 36 years.
Carpets, royals, rainbow boas, corns, milks, ackies and leos.

[Rickeezee]

My knowledge of substrates is not so hot on leos only what I have read, I don't use any substrates whatsoever for mine.

This way I find it easier to just clean out the tank base as required. Leos tend to go to the toilet in the same places, they use this as a territorial marker and it has been discussed that this also acts as a hunting marker and a way for them to distinguish their own territory when they have been out hunting at night and are returning home.

I use avery sand for my Scincus Scincus, sand fish, this is suitable as they live and burrow in sand as they hail from Egypt.

I dont think you should leave the forum can not see what this would achieve, but this is your own decision to make. I think it would be a shame if you did so. I consider this to be a good forum.

Yes people will have different views and this is healthy. I think Shanna Did state that she was not making a personal attack and I beleive you also stated something along similar lines. In my view I don't see the problem.



It is difficult at times as to how posts may be interpretted. Allways wise not to take things on a personal level though.

I have found with sand substrates and high temps that it is inevitable that you will get a smell, especially with meat eaters.
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[Peter Parrot]

Tafkadaz, you obviously do put a great deal of effort and thought into the husbandry of your animals, as has been commented on in the past. Your iguana viv is quite simpy the best I have ever seen to be honest.

The substrate subject is an old chestnut which has been debated to death. I think it can be used for ease of cleaning safely enough, and perhaps feed them off a different surface such as a dish or bowl.

John C is correct when he mentions how the sands can vary.

I am not the World`s best wordsmith myself, far from it! I know exactly how easy it is to misinterpret people`s wording of posts. It`s been done to me plenty of times.

I myself now read through posts at least twice before replying because it is so easy to misinterpret. I can see how your wording could have been misinterpreted, and I can see what you really meant too. Also, as I said earlier, I know you obviously DO put your animal`s well being high on the list.

This forum is not an unfreindly one however, and one persons opinion, whether right or wrong, is only that person`s opinion. Not the entire membership`s opinion. I personally use this forum almost exclusively as I find it the fairest, most honest and helpful too.

We should all be able to disagree with one another on certain threads, whilst agreeing with the same person on another. That`s what it`s all about. Healthy discussion that enables us all to learn, whilst helping each other. Dan calls it a community, and he is right to. I do think , however , that people, including myself, should read posts more carefully and thoroughly and perhaps not be so quick to comment.

Sometimes people don`t quite get the wording correct but it is normally obvious to me that that is whats happened. There is certainly no need for anyone in this instance to "leave the forum" and I hope all concerned stay.

That`s me done, enjoy the forum all, and perhaps everybody should try not to take to heart just any one individuals comments . We can all express our opinions on this forum, that`s what it`s for. Life is simply far too short to worry too much about what others may think though! I certainly don`t.
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[Rickeezee]

It's true I have seen Pete, he certainly does not care what people think
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