Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[Tea]

Ok, so as some of you might know, I have a pair of Yemens that I am hoping to breed as I'd very much like some eggs from my girl. I looked at her tonight and the size of her leaves little doubt in my mind that she's gravid. I don't know how I didn't see it sooner really, perhaps it was wishful thinking on my part but I digress.

Of course, I'm not totally sure about this, so after having spoken at some length via pm with Kinyonga I decided to introduce them to gauge reactions etc and to try and deduce what her egg-status, as it were, is at the moment. Well, upon seeing him she turned light green with blue spots which I took as a sign of receptiveness and that she isn't gravid (this first happened about a week and a half ago). The second time they saw each other she did the same only this time she coupled it with a gaping mouth (no hissing) and pronounced swaying from side to side although, knowing what she's like (grumpy little bugger, typical Yemen), this didn't seem to be aggressive behaviour. So yeah, Colour me confused. It may be worth noting that, thus far, my male has shown zero interest or aggression towards her, just watched quietly.

Tonight I decided to try again to see what would happen. Cue more bright green with blue spots, gaping mouth and swaying. This time I decided to run with it and let them do what they wanted for a bit, so when she went to grab a branch in his tank, rather than block with my hand like I did before (so I could intervene should there be any aggression) I allowed her onto said branch. This is where it got interesting...

For the first time in about 4 or 5 total showings/introductions, my male started shaking his head and slightly nodding it. Green colouration, no chainsaw chin (as we have affectionately dubbed it), no black colour on him, no hissing, no gaping... on his part anyway. That's when she started doing to him what i was kind of hoping he'd do to her. She started grabbing at him, holding onto his back, mouth open the whole time and nudging him with her nose but not biting. She was still her beautiful bright green/blue colour and still not hissing, but she was getting quite pushy with him... so much so he cr*pped his proverbial pants and fell off his branch! He didn't fall far, it wasn't a high up branch and he saved himself with his tail... but all the same. She just seemed to be harassing him.

I really don't know what to make of the above. Please bare in mind that I have never done this before so what I have described might be normal but I'm just not 100% sure what I need to be looking for. Any help would be awesome.

The other thing is, as I mentioned, her fatness. I've noticed patches in her substrate near the glass where she looks to have been 'digging'. I say it in inverted commas because it's not exactly a significant excavation effort but it's been dug at all the same. I've provided her with a tupperware tub full of sand just damp enough to hold its shape when dug and not collapse in on itself but she doesn't seem to be interested. The tub is in a cooler area of her tank and her dripper, which is set to very very slow most of the time is situated amongst the leaves above the tub so as to keep the moisture levels in the sand fairly constant as it tends to dry out very fast. The tub is a transparent blue colour and is about 4 inches deep by 8 inches long by 5 inches wide, or thereabouts anyway. It was a last minute 'oh my god I think she might be gravid' effort when I put it in there but I'm not convinced it's doing the job as she's not even tried digging in it though I can tell she's been in there because of her footprints.

I'm sorry about the essay guys, I'm just worried about her and curious as to what the hell is going on between my pair!

Thanks in advance, I hope someone can help!!
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http://www.iherp.com/tea

0.1.1 Elaphe guttata guttata
1.0 Python regius
1.0 Xenopus laevis
4.0 Hyla cinerea
0.0.4 Litoria cearulea
0.0.1 Varanus exanthematicus
1.1 Chameleo calyptratus

[kroakykaren]

Its an odd one Tea, she sounds gravid and could well be, try a much bigger tub for her, maybe she feels that one is too small, have you got any pics of her colouration? that could help people decide
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[Tea]

That's what I thought... though I was really hoping wasn't the case at the moment :S

I'll see about getting her a bigger tub tomorrow. Any suggestions as to what I could use?
_________________
http://www.iherp.com/tea

0.1.1 Elaphe guttata guttata
1.0 Python regius
1.0 Xenopus laevis
4.0 Hyla cinerea
0.0.4 Litoria cearulea
0.0.1 Varanus exanthematicus
1.1 Chameleo calyptratus

[kroakykaren]

Try a big washing up bowl tea, failing that if you think she is deperate to lay, fill a bin up half with laying medium and stick some branches in. Good Luck
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[kinyonga]

You said..." The tub is in a cooler area of her tank"...perhaps she would be happier with it if it were in a warmer area?

If the female doesn't like/use the container in her cage you can use a trashcan or a 65 liter rubbermaid-type container. Cut a hole in the lid and screen over it. Put a bag (or more) of washed playsand (moistened) in the bottom of it. Add a branch for her to sit on. You can add a plant as long as you make sure that the pot is sitting on the floor of the container so she can't dig under it. Put her in and put the lid on the container. Add a light over the screen on the lid...be aware that the container is enclosed and will get warmer than the screen cage will...so you may need a smaller light bulb. The female can be watered and fed when in here....but make sure to remove any uneaten insects so they won't chew on her (or the eggs when she lays them).

The displaying (gaping, etc.) is showing that she is non-receptive but if the coloration in the background is not dark (almost black) then its indicating that she is not non-receptive...as I mentioned in the private email to you.

[Tea]

Thanks Kinyonga... again! You really are a great help.

So, if I were to put her in an alternative, egg-laying arrangement such as that that you've described, would I be looking to leave her in there until she lays? I don't have anything suitable around the house at the moment so can you suggest any, more suitable egg laying containers for inside her cage that I could try (or make?) before I go and buy one?

Thanks again
_________________
http://www.iherp.com/tea

0.1.1 Elaphe guttata guttata
1.0 Python regius
1.0 Xenopus laevis
4.0 Hyla cinerea
0.0.4 Litoria cearulea
0.0.1 Varanus exanthematicus
1.1 Chameleo calyptratus

[kinyonga]

Hi Tea,
I put the type/size of container I described to you in the cage so that it gives the female a place to start digging to show that she is ready to lay eggs. Some are actually "happy" with that container and will lay their eggs in it....some have to be moved.

If the female seems to keep digging test holes and not getting serious about one hole in the container in her cage, then I move her to the container I described on the forum....and I leave her there for a few days.

Most of the ones I have moved to the large container have laid their eggs there....but I have had a few (not usually veileds) that haven't liked it and have had to be moved again.

I try not to have to move them...the more you move them the more chance there is of pushing them towards eggbinding IMHO.

You can put a larger container in her cage as long as the cage is big enough to handle it and the female has access to the container and can see/find it.

Hope all goes well for her!

[Tea]

Thank very much.

I'm going to try a different type of container in her cage tonight.

By way of an update on their behaviour, I let them see each other again last night. She continued to harass him whilst displaying receptive colours yet still gaping at him. He was reluctant verging on disinterested for most of the time but he did bob and shake his head quite a lot and he did attempt to mount her twice, one of these attempts was almost successful. She didn't go crazy at him when he tried but she did squirm around enough for him to lose his grip and walk away. She followed him around the viv for a while (eating his food on the way ) until I decided nothing else was going to happen and so, took her out.

She is seriously plump... but obviously as confused as i am... which is confusing him in turn. Trust me to get a girl who just cannot make up her mind!!

I got some videos and pictures from yesterdays attempt so I will put these up as soon as I can upload them.
_________________
http://www.iherp.com/tea

0.1.1 Elaphe guttata guttata
1.0 Python regius
1.0 Xenopus laevis
4.0 Hyla cinerea
0.0.4 Litoria cearulea
0.0.1 Varanus exanthematicus
1.1 Chameleo calyptratus

[kinyonga]

Any news, Tea?

[Tea]

Same old same old unfortunately :/

I replaced her egg laying tub with a deeper one with opaque sides so I'm just waiting to see if she drops anything for me. I'm still not 100% sure she's even got any eggs in her to be honest, I need someone to see her really... I've been trying to get some decent photos but none of them have really shown her size properly. I'm starting volunteering at my local reptile shop this sunday so I'll take her in with me one day and speak to someone there about it. I'll still try and get pics in the meantime so maybe you or someone else on here can shed some light!

As regards the behaviour between them, he has shown a little more interest but I've put their introduction process on hold for a little while as I monitor his health as the other day he worried me a bit... very swollen eyes that had gone down again within 15 mins... he's still building himself back up again after a while without the right conditions in his last home. I don't think I'm going to get a proper reaction from him until he's 100% which isn't going to be for another little while yet. I didn't initially realise how bad he was He's definitely getting there though and there's definitely more interest in her on his part so I'm confident that when he's feeling better within himself, he'll mate with her
_________________
http://www.iherp.com/tea

0.1.1 Elaphe guttata guttata
1.0 Python regius
1.0 Xenopus laevis
4.0 Hyla cinerea
0.0.4 Litoria cearulea
0.0.1 Varanus exanthematicus
1.1 Chameleo calyptratus