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PaulG
Captivebred Colonel
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 3996
Location: North West
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 Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| wethepeople wrote: | | You can be pretty sure of what you're going to get if the parents are pure. |
Yes you can, but they all vairy like ambilobe for example.
Anyway I dont want to start a debate mate. 
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Regards, Paul.
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Stuart Marquis
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Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 333
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | To be honest with you mate, i dont mind if they are correctly labbeled.
I mean you could pay 500 quid for panther X even though it 'could' be
panther Y which sell for 150 quid if you get my drift.
Also, i think in the end if we keep breeding 'local' specific then the panthers will become weaker and weaker from a limited gene pool.
Thus the crosses being much more healthy.
I have gone totally of topic havent I. . . sorry for waffling
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What I meant was that if it was an ambanja x nosy be (for example) then it was labelled as such rather than the seller trying to pass it off as a pure locality specimen. Whether you agree with crossing the localities or not, you can't argue with the honesty of someone who openly admits its a crossed animal.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with your comments about locality breeding weakening the gene pool. You almost seem to be implying that locality specific pairings aren't natural. Panther localities evolved due to populations being cut off from other populations due to geographic constraints. It is therefore perfectly natural for locality specific breeding's to occur. In fact, different localities only exist as a direct result of these restraints upon breeding!
If we (as captive breeders) forget about locality breeding and just class them all as panther chameleons then eventually there will be no differences between the localities because they'd all merge together and blur into each other. Not only would this be a bit boring for keepers but it also does nothing for the preservation of the species in its natural state.
Cheers
Stuart |
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PaulG
Captivebred Colonel
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 3996
Location: North West
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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No I DO agree with keeping them locale specific to a degree.
I feel that as long as the chameleons are labbeled as what they are
then there is not the problem, the problem is when they cross these animals
and they are not labbeled as such.
I do not know enough on the geographics of Madagascar to comment on this
but do crosses of these locales not sometimes happen in madagascar ?
As they are not all divided by sea etc.
Regards
Paul
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Regards, Paul.
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Stuart Marquis
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Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I do not know enough on the geographics of Madagascar to comment on this
but do crosses of these locales not sometimes happen in madagascar ?
As they are not all divided by sea etc |
But some are divided by sea! Nosy Be, for example, is a small island off the north west coast of mainland Madagascar. There are a few other island localities too. But even without a sea to divide populations, there are still things like mountains etc. |
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PaulG
Captivebred Colonel
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 3996
Location: North West
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Stuart Marquis wrote: | | Quote: | I do not know enough on the geographics of Madagascar to comment on this
but do crosses of these locales not sometimes happen in madagascar ?
As they are not all divided by sea etc |
But some are divided by sea! Nosy Be, for example, is a small island off the north west coast of mainland Madagascar. There are a few other island localities too. But even without a sea to divide populations, there are still things like mountains etc. |
Yes, but surely some must come into contact with one another and breed not locale specific.
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Regards, Paul.
:.Rhacodactylus.:.Eublepharis.:.Stenodactylus.:.Nephrurus.: |
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stuartdouglas
I've settled in...
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 48
Location: Boston, lincs
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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The trouble is with these large shows, they attract overseas buyers who have bog all chance of a money back or return if/when the animal turns out to not be as advertised. If you buy a three month old cham, you won't really know the locale for sure for a few months. Basically, they may well be labelled up, but who's to say that's even what it is? I bought a red bar Ambilobe from a dealer last March and bought the Nosy be from the same one last September, both were youngsters when i got them, but b'gger me if they weren't both hatched on Nov 16th 2006, at leas according to the paperwork I got which was identical for two chams purchased 6 months apart.
What i'm saying is, you can't trust any of the dealers unless you actually know what you're looking for or just want a good looking cham' and aren't too fussed about it's hometown |
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Stuart Marquis
Key Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 333
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| We I suppose its a possibility, but seeing as chameleons are territorial animals I don't think they would go wandering over huge distances. I have no data on the subject but I would guess some of the localities that are close together (eg ambanja and ambilobe ) may get some natural inter-breeding, but the numbers would be pretty negligible at a guess. |
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