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Incase of Envenomation
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Bezyboy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe yeah I bet, i Still don't like it when my jungle carpet bites me, let alone 2in fangs Shocked
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SiUK
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no snake is going to kill you within 30mins except in very rare circumstances right? within 4 hours is not very likely so I have read, even snakes like gaboons which inject massive amounts of venom.
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SiUK
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tigersnake wrote:
Hi all,
Bezyboy, I received a bite from a White-lipped Green Pit Viper about 22 years ago. It was a juvinile snake, about 18 inches long, and it caught me on the little finger of the left hand. It was a dry bite and I did not have any pain or swelling so I looked on it as a reminder to take more care.
Lynne, it sounds like they performed a fasciotomy, a procedure to relieve pressure inside a compartment caused by swelling due to fluid loss, also the cytotoxins destroy tissue around the bitesite helping to increase the pressure.
All the best,
Brian.


I was reading (all this reading lol) that fasciotomies are pretty much pointless in most cases, is that true? it said that doctors are too keen to do them when they are not needed.
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zarozinia
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you can stop breathing within 30 minutes. Neurotoxins can affect you in such a way that your muscles stop working - so for example you could have an early symptom of droopy eyelids, you may become unable to swallow - this is a dangerous point because basically you will be unable to breath very soon after this. So if you do not have someone available to ressusitate you at that point then yes it is feasible that you could die.

To be honest it depends largely on what type of venom is envenomated. I am no expert in this but have observed the above before
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tigersnake
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,
Yes, a fasciotomy is normaly pointless, the compartment pressure has to exceed the venous pressure in the bitten limb before the limb is compromised. This is usually at 40mmHg, (less in children). This rarely happens, the venom has to be injected into the muscle compartment,this is what causes the "compartment syndrome".
There are animal studies that suggest that muscle sufficiently envenomed and swollen to cause intracompartmental syndromes, may already be irreversibly damaged by the direct effects of the venom.
Early treatment with antivenom remains the best way of preventing irreversible muscle damage.
All the best,
Brian.
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zarozinia
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Brian

I have never fully understood compartment syndrome, would you be able to explain it in laymans terms for us? Its quite a dangerous problem normally isnt it? I imagine that many doctors and nurses are not that keyed up on how to treat serious envenomations and this specific problem 9 when connected to envenomations) seems to be very misunderstood
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tigersnake
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Angi,
If you imagine the muscle of the lower leg, it is actually a collection of many muscle fibres, held together in a compartment. this compartment is held together by a tough outer layer of connective tissue called fascia.
When venom is injected into this fascial compartment any resultant swelling is held within the compartment. Now consider that also within this compartment, the deep veins and arteries that supply the leg with oxygen and neutrients and take away carbon dioxide and waste products also run,once the pressure inside the fascia reaches a pressure greater that the venous pressure inside that fascia, the itracompartmental pressure will press these vessels shut, thus causing a "compartment syndrome".
Hope this helps, all the best,
Brian.
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zarozinia
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, so I was understanding it correctly after all, so what I dont understand now is why so many fasciotomies occur, do hospitals/Drs have different policies on how much pressure there should be before they take the action of surgery?
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SiUK
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reading on another forum, that in the US they are done to bump up hospital bills so they make more money, viperkeeper was actually talking about it.
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zarozinia
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That doesnt sound very ethical
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